What would you do?

[201er]

Don't hand yourself off to the next controlling agency. Nothing will piss off ATC more then a pilot trying to do their job for them. There may be a damn good reason why they aren't talking to you at the moment. So either be patient or cancel your IFR services.

That makes no sense. I've had countless times when a controller slept through my handoff and I was lucky to figure out a frequency I could get a hold of someone on. As long as you are talking to whoever you're supposed to be talking to at that point in the flight, you're good.

[PMcClure]

I've been in situations in ATL when the controller got so busy he never handed me off and I got out of range. I had to look up the next frequency myself and contact them. It was a non event for both of us. 

[Seth]

I personally would monitor approach on comm 1 and call the tower on comm 2 letting them know the loss if contact and let the tower handle the hand off or tell me to stay with approach: That way I'm still in two way communication with approach and can get the tower to switch me over.

It may mess up my usual protocol of atis/ground on comm 2 and approach/tower on comm 1.

It's like when you are monitoring approach on Comm 1 and talking to the FBO on Comm 2 to call a taxi. If approach calls you, switch the transmit key back to Comm 1 and answer.

-Seth

[cbarry]

I agree that tower should be contacted, at least on the secondary radio, while listening to ATC on the other radio. Or you could just buy a slower plane giving yourself and ATC more time to make contact!

[Danb]

If your still fuzzy and want to make sure, upon landing you could contact the Front line manager or Controller in charge per faa, basically not necessary if you follow Brett's advice. We need to remember we fly the plane and they eat the donuts. Also many controllers have never been in a small plane, what a shame. Why not shock cool our equip. Or cook the panel, most have no clue unless your heavy metal. There basic duty is separation of traffic so by contacting the tower In this instance ( they are part of the system) completes the cycle. If in imc follow your clearance that you read back and acknowledged. It will fall into space no pun intended. During our Ipc's these items sb covered good questions to ask..

[John Pleisse]

Here or anywhere...if you are in weather.....they will make sure t-h-e-y find y-o-u, if there is an error. Also Cruiser, ...I was going to suggest maybe asking for approaches way out. Sometimes they'll add it to the strip, then they won't play hot potato because they know you are about to hog up a chunk of airspace. Also, they know they can dump you earlier.

 

Cruiser and I were talking about this, so maybe other locals correct me if I am wrong, but the approach sector at FDK from Dulles/Potomac Tracon is 126.1. However, Cruiser mentioned he was 8 miles from FDK on 126.825, one sector back (MRB, HGR). I think a handoff may have been missed earlier. It happens. A big fast Ovation, decending at over 200 KTS, controller shift change or late day push on a VMC day....

[jlunseth]

Well, that is unique airspace and the clearance you generally get, to land at FDK, is also unique.  Coming in from the west, which is pretty much the only way to get in because you have the Wash SFRA south and Ft. Derrick SFAR north) you will usually get a clearance to Westminster, which is well northeast of FDK.  They don't intend to fly you to Westminster, they intend to put you on a course to Westminster and then either vector you to FDK or have you go visual (note I said visual, not VFR) to FDK.  You are also coming down over some ridges that run north and south, so it is not unreasonable to believe that you have lost comm. with ATC at least temporarily, if you are low enough over the ridges. 

 

They are expecting you to go to FDK and if you have the field in sight and can reach the tower I would just call tower, tell them you were unable to reach ATC, and ask for landing clearance.  They will straighten it out with ATC.  In that airspace, however, I don't think I would squawk VFR.  Probably within the narrow corridor between the SFRA and the Ft. Derrick airspace you could go VFR, I have not checked, but I would not be comfortable dropping my ATC transponder code in that area unless FDK tower instructed me to, both the SFAR and the SFRA require you to be on an ATC assigned code.  If I had two radios, or the ability to monitor an extra channel, I would continue to monitor the ATC frequency.

 

The story I heard on why ATC assigns the course routing to Westminster, is that in the process of merging ATC jurisdictions in the area, there were issues either of compensation or funding that were based on the number of flights handled by the particular ATC jurisdiction.  To make sure that one jurisdiction got the credit it wanted, flights get routed to Westminster but dropped off at FDK short of Westminster.

[Dave Marten]

That makes no sense. I've had countless times when a controller slept through my handoff and I was lucky to figure out a frequency I could get a hold of someone on. As long as you are talking to whoever you're supposed to be talking to at that point in the flight, you're good.

In this example the pilot had NOT be issued an approach clearance and was under IFR control. No release granted or implied by approach control. The pilot should not intiate his own contact with the tower while still under IFR control with approach. That is the procedural foul. In this case the pilot, by initiating his own switch while under positive IFR control is wrong. In this case if the pilot initiated a descent out of his IFR assigned altitude without clearance he's wrong.

 

Be patient, report the field, recieve your clearance for the visual and handoff to tower, and have a nice day.

 

For the 5th time.....if you want to ship yourself over to tower and descend on your own you need to say the magic words...Cancel IFR.

 

Study up on your instrument procedures boys! IPC's for all my friends!

[phecksel]

Which is why, ident... It lights you up on the controllers board.

[Cruiser]

snip....

 

Cruiser and I were talking about this, so maybe other locals correct me if I am wrong, but the approach sector at FDK from Dulles/Potomac Tracon is 126.1. However, Cruiser mentioned he was 8 miles from FDK on 126.825, one sector back (MRB, HGR). I think a handoff may have been missed earlier. It happens. A big fast Ovation, decending at over 200 KTS, controller shift change or late day push on a VMC day....

John, There must have been some changes with Potomac approach, I got 126.82 assigned during clearance delivery on my way out of Frederick also.

[Cruiser]

Which is why, ident... It lights you up on the controllers board.

This is a good way to get attention and I think it might be a way to deal with an emergency but I don't think anyone should be going around hitting the ident button every time they feel the need. That was my point of this thread. Better ways to aviate. 

 

ChrisH still has the best suggestion, I should have announced the airport in sight when asked. It was clear and hazy but VMC all the way. I needed to get out of the controllers way, not make more work for him.

[Cruiser]

snip....,

 you will usually get a clearance to Westminster, which is well northeast of FDK. They don't intend to fly you to Westminster, they intend to put you on a course to Westminster and then either vector you to FDK or have you go visual (note I said visual, not VFR) to FDK.  You are also coming down over some ridges that run north and south, so it is not unreasonable to believe that you have lost comm. with ATC at least temporarily, if you are low enough over the ridges. 

snip.....

flights get routed to Westminster but dropped off at FDK short of Westminster.

 

That use to be the way it happened last year. Every flight was amended MRB V166 EMI FDK and I would get dropped off at FDK. Never once had to actually go to Westminster. Lately though there is no amendment to the flight plan and Potomac will at some point issue a direct FDK and I can cut the corner around MRB from the west.

 

They do like to keep you high over the ridges and FDK is 303 MSL, makes for some interesting descents.

[jlunseth]

Dave-

91.185 b applies and trumps 91.123(a), the only issue is how to land, since there is a tower at FDK (you must make two way comm. unless truly NORDO), and how to make sure ATC knows you are down (tell tower so they can call ATC).

[kortopates]

Frankly, I think you'll have a hard time convincing the local FSDO that was indeed a lost comm event.

 

However, in my 24 years of flying IFR, this is very common discussion point among Controller-Pilot meetings and at least for the SOCAL Tracon where I am based, they have been entirely consistent in advising that once put on final or told you to intercept final, that upon passing the FA, we were good to contact tower and just let tower know we handed ourselves off if they haven't released us by then. But if we weren't yet on final we were NOT suppose to sequence ourselves in - for the obvious reasons. After re-reading the OP's description of the event, with the visual expected, I too would have contacted tower and explained the situation to tower while monitoring ATC on the other radio.

 

But, what the SOCAL Tracon finds acceptable may not be the case everywhere and frankly what I would recommend to the OP is to simply get on the phone and talk to a controller at the specific facility and ask them what they wanted you to do. I guarantee they'll welcome the opportunity to discuss it with you; especially offline. You've already heard a variety of different positions that really don't compare to the one that really matters: your specific TRACON or facility.

 

The thing we really worry about though in my area, is that often an extended downwind vector can take us uncomfortably close to terrain we won't clear. On an IMC day with a congested frequency it sometimes feels like we're playing a game a chicken with how close they're going to let us get. The really good controllers will even say "If lost comm by x miles, turn southbound to intercept final" - but not all of them. But they've always come back before we were a mere couple minutes from disaster. But seeing the red terrain grow on the panel is an attention getter! 

[Marauder]

Paul -- I think nuances between control facilities is what exactly drives me nuts. And I'm sure it has led to a few "deals" over the years. For an agency that prides itself in publishing thousands of pages of regulations pertaining to aviation, you would think clarity of expectations would be high on their list of priorities. But you're right, what is okay there doesn't mean it will be okay elsewhere.