Positive control

[IvoryM]

Does anyone know how much useful load I would gain if I have the positive control system on my 1965 M20E Super 21 removed. It has been disconnected as long as I have owned the plane but is still a complete system. I am also interested to know if there is any benefit to having it reconnected.

Thanks

Mitch

[N201MKTurbo]

i like having the PC system, at least I did when I had my F. I would get it working. Fixing all the boots will usually do it. I have heard lately that you cannot buy the boots and have to buy the whole servos. If your boots are not ripped they can be put back in service.

 

If you removed the whole system it might save you 5 pounds. Hardly worth the effort.

[Marauder]

Mitch -- I had the complete PC system removed. I don't have access to my logs, but you would save weight but I don't think it was a lot. In fact, I mailed all of my old PC hardware to another Mooney Space member and I think it was less than 10 pounds. I will look tonight in my logs if someone else doesn't chime in.

 

As for the PC. If you can get it working, it does help some with keeping the wings level if you are trying to read a map or playing with the radios. I removed mine to upgrade to a full autopilot because I was flying IFR regularly and wanted a more capable system. I have seen the current prices of the full systems and they aren't cheap. If you can get it working again, I think it has some benefit. And from what I understand, Brittain is very reasonable on the cost to fix the system.

[orionflt]

If it is only the positive control system and no accuflt interfaces the only thing you gain with the positive control system is a little added stability if you let go of the yoke to look at charts, with the accuflight system installed it becomes a basic autopilot. My C had the positive control system with out navigation interfaces installed after market, (my plane was built before the PC system was introduced) I like not having it on all the time, but it is nice to have when I'm flying in weather. The big issue I have with mine is it tends to wander but I have talked to brittain and they said they could fix it if I brought it to them.

[EDNR-Cruiser]

The PC is no more than a simple wing leveler... 50 years ago before the age of autopilots it really added some safety to flying. Pilots back then knew pretty well how to trim their airplanes and the "Positive Control" wing leveler made the early Mooneys really stable platforms.
If your Mooney has an autopilot on board then PC is definitly obsolete... - if not it might be a cheap option for an occasional coffee break on board your Mooney Airline...  
 

[carusoam]

Get it connected to a heading bug and then you've really got some capability...

Best regards,

-a-

[Shadrach]

If it is only the positive control system and no accuflt interfaces the only thing you gain with the positive control system is a little added stability if you let go of the yoke to look at charts, with the accuflight system installed it becomes a basic autopilot. My C had the positive control system with out navigation interfaces installed after market, (my plane was built before the PC system was introduced) I like not having it on all the time, but it is nice to have when I'm flying in weather. The big issue I have with mine is it tends to wander but I have talked to brittain and they said they could fix it if I brought it to them.

"the only thing you gain with the positive control system is a little added stability"

While there's no disputing the age of the technology, I would say it adds a lot of stability.

[Bob_Belville]

I flew many hundred hours in a '66E with only PC before adding an STEC AP many years ago. For a single pilot, the full time wing leveler was very helpful, even a necessity for any type flying except perhaps local sightseeing, I'm pretty sure Mooney came to that conclusion early on and made the Brittain system standard equipment. Our relatively sleek planes can get into unusual attitudes pretty quickly if the pilot has any distractions to deal with.      

[N201MKTurbo]

When I had my F, I had the PC working so good that in relatively smooth air I could fly all day without touching the yoke. I would just rest my foot on the rudder peddle for the direction I needed to correct towards. Some days you could correct the heading by just leaning a bit in your seat. 

[scottfromiowa]

One week to install of PC altitude hold system. I will do write-up with photos when complete/bugs worked out. PC CAN be MUCH MORE than JUST a "wing-leveler".

Brittain is getting closer to having all approvals completed...but don't bug 'em yet...

[rakesb]

Mitch, when bought my '66 M20C last summer, some told me that I would never miss the totally dilapidated and inoperative PC system. DMax completely rebuilt the PC just to give my petite wife the retractable step, and now the PC system is one of the things I love most about my Mooney. Even in light turbulence, it holds heading almost perfectly. Properly trimmed, she flies hands off for many miles; probably the closest thing to an autopilot that I will ever own.

Very Sincerely,

Bobby

Sent from my iPad

[IvoryM]

Bobby,

Thanks for the info. How expesive was it to rebuild the system and get it working again?

Thanks,

Mitch

[AmigOne]

Unless you live near Tulsa the major expense is getting there. From what I recall from a conversation with them about 3 years ago it was not expensive. I love my PC, it wanders a bit to the right but going VFR it is OK, IFR it obviously requires more attention.

[M204ever]

In poor visibility conditions it may become a life saver.

With the PC on you relax.

[Hank]

Unless you live near Tulsa the major expense is getting there. From what I recall from a conversation with them about 3 years ago it was not expensive. I love my PC, it wanders a bit to the right but going VFR it is OK, IFR it obviously requires more attention.

The servo in your right wing is leaking. Call Brittain, they'll tell you what size o-ring to put around the boot (like a rubber band) before wrapping with electrical tape. They rebuilt my right servo for $136 a year ago, the boot had a 2" tear and the o-ring was broken. The hard part is getting the servo out of the wing.

[SkyPilot]

I just had the autopilot rebuilt by Kevin at Brittain. I've had the airplane for 3 years and it has never worked. Now it works just fine. Only $417 later. I can't think of too many airplane parts that cheap. I think this one is actually slaved to the ILS too. Nice. I'm thinking of a few upgrades and then, after 29 years of VFR flying, I might actually bite the bullet and get my IFR.

 

Keep the PC is is nice.

 

Paul K

[Dale Logsdon]

A pc system was added to my 63c in 1965. The weight and ballance showes it added 7.3 lbs.

[N601RX]

The weight is going to depend.  If it is the older style and has a separate gyro in the back its going to be a few more lbs.  If its the newer style and has uses the turn coordinator up front the weight is going to be less.  The servo's are under a pound each and the plastic tubing isn't much either.  Well worth keeping and upgrading.

[Dale Logsdon]

_{I have the gyro in back at 7.3 lbs total.}