1982 Mooney would love a good home.

[bnicolette]

Hi folks,

 

Well I've been talking about upgrading to an airplane that has TKS and I'm never going to jump unless I get rid of my J or if an Ovation comes along that I can't let pass by and trade my plane in.  So, I will be putting it on the market soon.  I have full intentions on getting into another Mooney that has TKS.  Honestly the J is all I would ever need for my little commute but for piece of mind I need to have TKS.  I really like Mark's Missile or I'm going to go into an Ovation.  But my J has to go before any of that happens.  I have it priced high but it literally is in perfect perfect condition and I've spared no expense mechanically.  Check it out on the site and let me know your thoughts:

 

http://www.laurelaviation.com/Laurel_Aviation/N1162G_Mooney_for_sale.html

 

[jetdriven]

Carbon fiber cowl fix?

[Seth]

Go with the Missile with TKS. Do a trade plus cash and he'll more easily move the 201 as there are more buyers for a 201 than a Missile with TKS. It's a win-win for both of you.

You get your TKS plane now, and he gets to sell the 201 to a wider audience.

-Seth

[bnicolette]

Carbon fiber cowl fix?

 

I guess that's what it is Byron?  

 

They used a regular bi-directional cloth on many of the cracks underneath but then put the carbon material as an added support for the trouble area where the paint was cracking on the top.  I guess they've had good success with this in the past.  Time will tell.

[jetdriven]

Looks good Brett!

[bnicolette]

Go with the Missile with TKS. Do a trade plus cash and he'll more easily move the 201 as there are more buyers for a 201 than a Missile with TKS. It's a win-win for both of you.

You get your TKS plane now, and he gets to sell the 201 to a wider audience.

-Seth

I agree Seth but the only issue I'm having is that my hangar neighbor just sold his 1994 TLS Bravo for $170.  It was loaded with TKS, onboard O2, King EHSI 40, alt sel, HF radio, less than 1500TT and 95 hrs SFRM.  Beautiful paint and more beautiful interior.  I look at that and think that I could go to a long body that is 12 years newer for less than $30K over the Missile.  I don't need a turbo charged airplane or I  would've jumped on it.  My usual mission is generally 185nm with a few exceptions here and there.

 

I have been in touch with Nick (selling Mark's airplane) so maybe we'll see what happens.  I would love to be able to help Mark unload his airplane and have a win win for everybody but not sure that we will be able to make the numbers appealing for everybody.

[John Pleisse]

I like a mid 90's FIKI Bravo.....they're just wheel barrel loads of money to keep perfect. I'd buy the J Brett, but I'd have to sell mine first.

[Seth]

I agree Seth but the only issue I'm having is that my hangar neighbor just sold his 1994 TLS Bravo for $170. It was loaded with TKS, onboard O2, King EHSI 40, alt sel, HF radio, less than 1500TT and 95 hrs SFRM. Beautiful paint and more beautiful interior. I look at that and think that I could go to a long body that is 12 years newer for less than $30K over the Missile. I don't need a turbo charged airplane or I would've jumped on it. My usual mission is generally 185nm with a few exceptions here and there.

I have been in touch with Nick (selling Mark's airplane) so maybe we'll see what happens. I would love to be able to help Mark unload his airplane and have a win win for everybody but not sure that we will be able to make the numbers appealing for everybody.

I see what you mean. Good luck with your search!! Maybe someone needs to get rid of their ovation with TKS. Where you live, FIKI would be nice in the winter, and early spring, and late fall

-Seth

[Seth]

What is the cost to add TKS to your bird?  Just a thought.  I checked out your for sale website and admit that it comes off as very honest and transparent.  Whoever purchases your 82 J will have a turnkey airplane in good shape - and they can replace the bulb behind the AP indicators.

 

-Seth

[bnicolette]

What is the cost to add TKS to your bird?  Just a thought.  I checked out your for sale website and admit that it comes off as very honest and transparent.  Whoever purchases your 82 J will have a turnkey airplane in good shape - and they can replace the bulb behind the AP indicators.

 

-Seth

 

Thanks Seth!

 

The TKS installed is $34.5K for the no FIKI system.  Which in the grand scheme of things seems really expensive but then again to chance buying another airplane that I will need to dial in, it makes it seem not so expensive.  I've given this much thought and have been back and forth so many times which is why I just won't list the airplane on the classified sites yet.  I've got my airplane now to the point that I shouldn't have to do anything to it for years to come so maybe I should just make it the way I want it?  I'm torn..........I really am.  Trying to make a financial decision when it comes to these things just seems impossible to make the "right" choice.

 

I would've replaced that damn bulb but the unit needs sent back to Century or Autopilots Central to get it replaced and it just hasn't been a priority nor did I want to put the plane down to do it.  I can live without it.

[xftrplt]

Brett,

Do you have anything else you wish to tell this forum?

[bnicolette]

Brett,

Do you have anything else you wish to tell this forum?

 

LOL!  

 

Who me?  

[Marauder]

Brett -- man, do I know where you are at! I went back and forth on whether to upgrade an airplane that met 80% of my flying needs, that I knew inside and out or spend a ton more to pick up the remaining 20% of utility. I wish it was an easy decision but in reality, it came down to cost versus benefit. I just had a hard time justifying putting out the additonal cash to pick up that remaining 20%. That said, if you think that another plane opens up greater utility and the math works, go for it.

[mooniac15u]

What's the useful load?

[bnicolette]

I'm out on the road currently but I believe it is close to 900lbs.

[Dave Marten]

Since you asked for opinions.....I'll be honest.

I think you're priced 7-10k high based on your avionics. What is a KNS 80 and Apollo 360? (Just kidding). If you do intend to keep the J an IFR GPS will yield much more utility.

When I bought my Mooney the /G was a mandatory item. Most IFR pilots will either walk away from a non-IFR GPS bird or factor the cost to upgrade into their offer.

[bnicolette]

Since you asked for opinions.....I'll be honest. I think you're priced 7-10k high based on your avionics. What is a KNS 80 and Apollo 360? (Just kidding). If you do intend to keep the J an IFR GPS will yield much more utility. When I bought my Mooney the /G was a mandatory item. Most IFR pilots will either walk away from a non-IFR GPS bird or factor the cost to upgrade into their offer.

Dave thanks for being honest. Im somewhat of an IFR pilot myself and i can tell you that for "me" an IFR GPS adds zero utility for the way I operate the airplane. The KNS80 allows me to legally file direct and the Apollo GPS works like a charm! The 7-10k that you think i am overpriced is a blanket market statement. Any plane is worth whatever a buyer is willing to pay. If i wished to sell it quickly then i agree with you that the price would have to come down to keep folks from just passing over the online ad (if there were one) but at the moment i am in no hurry to part with it. A savvy buyer would take the time to investigate the pro's and con's of each airplane, meticulously comb through the logs and equipment list before even considering moving to the next step. This is where i believe my airplane brings a premium to some degree. My airplane has ongoing continuous maintenance (not just at annual time) from either a MSC or a professional shop and is being flown approx. 110 hours per year. That usual 10% that new buyers need to add into their budget for first year maintenance expenses is non existent with this airplane and probably a lot of the users airplanes on this forum. We seem to take that extra care of our machines than that of the general population of machines on the market? I am bold enough to say that this airplane is perfect perfect. Not one issue and paint/interior are in outstanding condition.

[Marauder]

Dave thanks for being honest. Im somewhat of an IFR pilot myself and i can tell you that for "me" an IFR GPS adds zero utility for the way I operate the airplane. The KNS80 allows me to legally file direct and the Apollo GPS works like a charm! The 7-10k that you think i am overpriced is a blanket market statement. Any plane is worth whatever a buyer is willing to pay. If i wished to sell it quickly then i agree with you that the price would have to come down to keep folks from just passing over the online ad (if there were one) but at the moment i am in no hurry to part with it. A savvy buyer would take the time to investigate the pro's and con's of each airplane, meticulously comb through the logs and equipment list before even considering moving to the next step. This is where i believe my airplane brings a premium to some degree. My airplane has ongoing continuous maintenance (not just at annual time) from either a MSC or a professional shop and is being flown approx. 110 hours per year. That usual 10% that new buyers need to add into their budget for first year maintenance expenses is non existent with this airplane and probably a lot of the users airplanes on this forum. We seem to take that extra care of our machines than that of the general population of machines on the market? I am bold enough to say that this airplane is perfect perfect. Not one issue and paint/interior are in outstanding condition.

I have seen Brett's plane; it is in exceptional condition and it is clear it is being maintained exceptionally well. Also since Brett flies big iron, I know he knows the ins and outs of the system. Until last December, I flew IFR totally /A, mostly in the eastern part of the country. It is amazing how frequently I got direct routing due to the radar coverage here. When I did go /G, I found that it opened up some airports for me, but the majority of my flying was still to airports that had decent VOR or ILS approaches. Hopefully someone who is looking for a great J will step and appreciate Brett's.

[Seth]

Brett-

 

I agree with your above statement.  However, what sold a friend's plane recently was the fact that there was a GTN 650 in the panel.  He never had to list it, someone else on the field purchased it. 

 

If you want your plane to sell quickly, and for closer to your purchase price, put a WAAS GPS/NAV/COM in there.  If you want to wait for the right buyer, which you clearly can and have the patience for - keep at it.  There are not a lot of J's in the condition yours is at for sale.  It'll happen in time.

 

-Seth

[bnicolette]

Brett-

 

I agree with your above statement.  However, what sold a friend's plane recently was the fact that there was a GTN 650 in the panel.  He never had to list it, someone else on the field purchased it. 

 

If you want your plane to sell quickly, and for closer to your purchase price, put a WAAS GPS/NAV/COM in there.  If you want to wait for the right buyer, which you clearly can and have the patience for - keep at it.  There are not a lot of J's in the condition yours is at for sale.  It'll happen in time.

 

-Seth

 

Hey Seth,

 

Thanks for the input.  If I wanted to move it quickly I would either install an old 430 or just fire sale the airplane.  My plane is paid for and is now to a point that it doesn't need anything else maintenance wise so the cost to keep it around is minimal.

   

I think the perfect scenario for me is to partner with somebody on a light twin (Beech 55 is what I've been looking at) and that way I could have the best of both worlds.  

 

Just taking my time and exploring different options to get the job done and also have something that I can play with.

[KSMooniac]

It seems to be a premium J in my opinion, and priced reasonably well even without a WAAS box.  The savvy buyer would be much wiser to find a regularly flying and loved airframe that is truly turn-key but in need of a GPS, than spending the same amount of money for one with a GPS and a laundry list of deferred items to address in the future, which of course rarely need addressing when it is convenient.

 

You also might note in your ad that you have the removable bucket seats in back...that is a coveted feature that isn't present in the earlier models like mine.

 

Partnering in a FIKI twin or other plane sounds like a great idea to me... you'll get the dispatch reliability you're seeking for the cold months, and retain the option to fly your bird at any time, and especially if the other plane goes in the shop.  It also seems that you can buy a nice B55 these days for less than what you're asking on the J.  Partnering might very well allow you to have both.

[bnicolette]

Scott thanks for your perspective and once again you've crystalized my thoughts.  

 

Jim I spent my last trip (6 days sitting in a hotel room) doing nothing but researching the B55's from the B to E model.  I spent the better part of one of those days talking with B55 owners (not sellers) in the 1969-1976 era.  I've discussed it with my insurance agent ($2k annually) and also my mechanic.  It is certainly doable with the right airplane.  My biggest concern is that even if you want to fire sale these damn things they aren't moving so for me it would be paramount to have an exquisite pre buy and a rock bottom price.  Will probably talk myself out of it but my friend that just sold his Bravo is pushing hard to go for it.  Maybe we should search for a 3rd and 4th guy.  

 

$40K before he even gets the thing in the air seems a bit crazy from my conversations with B55 owners, but as we all know it sure could be possible on a "bad" year.  

[KSMooniac]

If you want, I could put you in touch with a friend of mine that moved up from a V35 to a B55 in a partnership several years ago.  The partnership ended up fizzling and he was "stuck" with the plane, but has managed to pull it off solo and even add upgrades along the way.  I'm sure he could give you the good and bad of it.  They sure are cheap to get into these days, relatively speaking!  notsomuch to own and operate...

 

I'd love to earn my multi and have the use of a twin now and then just for something different, and to build mutli time of course "just in case" I ever decide to move up the pilot chain at all.  (highly doubtful, but working into a flight test position here at work (Learjet) is intriguing)  However, I have zero interest in owning one by myself!  My dream situation would be to continue to own and upgrade my J, and get into a club or partnership arrangement with a traveling twin and a fun plane or two like a Stearman, Cub, etc.  That would be my dream...especially if we could all live together on an airpark with a big community hangar for the shared planes.  

[bnicolette]

Yes Scott if you don't mind and you don't think your friend would mind me picking his brain a little bit I could always use some more "real life" input on the 55's.

(bnicolette@yahoo.com)

 

I didn't know you worked there!  How cool is that!!  Do you ever get to go up on the test flights after they've done wing work and go through all the stall series?

 

Those damn Wright brothers did me in man!  People think I'm nuts as when I come off a week long trip of flying every day, I inevitably end up at my hangar taking the Mooney out to play.

[bnicolette]

I understand, Brett. FWIW, I think that my friend's 40 AMU number was an annual average "all inclusive". He owned a late 60s B55 immediately before his current mid 90s model, though, so he obviously likes the B55.

Have you considered a Travel Air? If I am not mistaken some of the later models have IO-360s similar to our own.

Jim

 

Jim I would want something with complete anti-ice capabilities. Guys are claiming 22gph economy settings in cruise with the B models which isn't too bad.