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You can count dollars about how much this or that costs but to what end? At the end of the day some things just can't be measured in dollars. And it is those intangibles that give meaning to life. Like kids, wife, family, cars, motorcycles and the Mooney! Having the keys to your own Mooney in the hangar at your disposal...priceless. I stop by the hangar at least twice a week. Sometimes I just do nothing but just check out my Mooney. Mooney therapy!

Exactly. In addition my hangar is my clubhouse and i spend quite a bit of time there tinkering around and spending time with the other aviation addicts. The wife and kids also spend time at the hangar with me bicycling, rollerblading and barbecuing through the summer months.

do you want the actual true cost, or just what everyone estimates...I think if we ever figured out the true costs to own mot people wouldn't. I own more becuase the benefits of having an airplane at my disposal, I hate having to rent a plane to take a trip.

I am working on my commercial and this weekend went out and worked on 180 power off landings. Did a little work last week also. It turned into an exercise in developing numbers. My numbers might be helpful. Bear in mind that I have a 231, and from my experience with a J, the 231 falls more quickly than a J when at idle. Also, my numbers are a work in progress. I used the proscribed technique, which is to drop the gear on downwind at approach speed and power, pull the power abeam a chosen touchdown point and then pitch immediately for best glide, fly a short downwind, turn to base then final and try to land within 200 feet of your spot. Last week I tried a couple at an airport that had an 800 foot pattern altitude, so I started at 800. I found that I could not make a 180 and get to the runway from 800 feet. Even trying required an immediate circle maneuver with no squaring of base or lining up with the runway on final. It is possible that in a real emergency, had I simply gone for it, I might barely have made the threshhold although I would probably have pranged the plane hitting hard. I opted to go around instead. The standard advice is to be at 800 at the point where you turn downwind to base, and I think you need at least that much. I found in further working on the maneuver, that I need at least 1000' pattern altitude, and I need at least .75 miles from the runway. I found that using the best glide chart in this situation did help. My chart shows different best glide speeds depending on gross weight. The speeds range from 76 at 2300 pounds to 87 at full gross. It helped to use the speed for the particular weight. Winds were calm. I found in my successful attempts from 1000 feet that if I pitched quickly for best glide (actually gaining a little altitude), that I could fly a little bit of a downwind, but that I needed to "cut the corner," viz. take a diagonal to the runway and not square the base to final. I could then add flaps as needed, with a little bit of forward slipping if necessary, and make my touchdown point. I used .75 miles from the airport waypoint on the GPS. Half a mile was just too close. If I used a max. 30 degree bank, a try from 800' required more than 180 degrees of continuous turn from downwind, in other words I would blow past the runway and would need to continue the turn to get back to it. With .75 I was able to fly a little bit of a downwind, and make a turn that lined up with the runway. Now that I know how this works, I am going to try a mile from the runway, which I feel is about the right distance to fly a Mooney pattern with power on. It allows squaring the base to see possible aircraft on final, and it avoids overbanked turns at slow speed. I am fairly confident that if I make my base turn as soon as I have achieved best glide, that I can make the touchdown point from the 1 mile distance, I guess we will see. One comment is to resist the temptation to put the nose over to get down to your touchdown point. You will gain too much speed and hit hard, which is not good for the plane. I should also say that both of my work sessions have been in calm winds, I have not had a chance to see how the numbers work in crosswinds. I have worked a little on a steep spiral also. The technique I was taught at one of the Mooney PPP's, is to pick a touchdown point on the runway, pitch for best glide, and circle that point. The starting point for the first circle should be on the downwind leg (but at a much higher altitude) and abeam the chosen touchdown point. Note the amount of altitude you have lost on the first circle. Lets say, hypothetically, that you lost 2000 feet. You now know that each circle of the runway will give you about 2000 feet, and that you want to start your power off 180 descent to landing from at least 1000 feet, so simple math will tell you how many circles to make. It is very important to hold best glide speed or your math will be off. It is unlikely that you will start, let's say, exactly 7000 feet above the runway, which would be three circles and then the thousand feet for the power off 180, so you need to use a little estimation and make whatever maneuver at the bottom of the spiral that you need to get to that 1000 foot spot on downwind. It is also important, in my view, when doing this circle to a power off 180 landing, to keep the bank mild and below 30 degrees, standard rate is even better. You are not trying to lose a ton of altitude, you are trying to make a controlled, precise descent. It is possible to use more bank and lose altitude faster. I guess if you start with an engine out over an airport in the flight levels, you might want to use more bank at the start to lose altitude faster. I have a couple of comments on that. First, you have to maintain best glide or something in that vicinity if you are going to use a bank over 30 degrees. If you allow the plane to speed up it gets very uncomfortable, which means too many G forces. Second, having had the need to do an emergency descent from the flight levels, I would have to say that you almost never have the luxury of finding yourself directly over an airport, and you are going to have to make up whatever descent is necessary to get you there. In my case, I had a loss of oil pressure and was very concerned that I make it to the airport with the engine still alive, even if I burned it up making a safe landing, so with engine seizure a possibility at any moment I throttled back and did a straight high speed dive towards the airport 20 miles away, deploying the speed brakes to stay below Vne, and it worked out. I would have to say that having a set of numbers and a technique that you have practiced in your aircraft would be invaluable in an engine out, but effective problem solving is even more so.

I have always done pretty well at dead stick landings and every two years I get tested by an instructor and have no real issue. I have avoided practicing dead stick landings solo because I'm afraid of an accidental gear up. On the other hand, I also am afraid of the engine quitting as I think it is likely to happen to me one day. So, the other day I was tooling around on a little valley tour and when I got close to my home base, I decided to test my dead stick skills. At about 6500ft, I pulled power to idle, pulled the prop all the way back and trimmed in best glide. It was never a question of whether or not I would make the airport, it was all about what happens after I get to the airport. I show up at the airport and enter the downwind for the runway that the wind favored, but about 3,000 ft above the pattern altitude. So what do you do next? I opted to fly a great big long downwind, but how far? Not being big on math in the cockpit, I used my best guess. I rolled out on final about 1,000 ft too high and so went gear down, flaps down and forward slip. Sorry buddy, this approach ain't workin' out. I gave up on this mess, fired up the engine and initiated a go around. Embarrassing. Had this been a real emergency, I would have made the runway, but I would have skidded off the end of runway, into the dirt and it would have gotten ugly. I probably would have survived, but I doubt the plane would have. Since I'm not going to do some crazy math in the cockpit, more info about sink rates and altitude losing strategies are needed. Round II My next flight out, I went specifically to find out about sink rates. With just me on board and about 50 gallons of fuel, best glide sink was about 600 fpm. This works out to about 350' per mile forward. I then did two standard rate 180 degree turns to the left and two to the right and discovered that a standard rate 180 either way will lose about 800 ft. I then did the same thing, but instead of standard rate, I chose 30 degree bank 180 turns. Guess what? Only lost 400 ft. These are nice round numbers I can work with. I didn't have all day to do this, so back to the airport and I again arrived about 2500 ft too high. On this approach, I flew to the numbers on a crosswind and then did my 180 standard rate turn to the left (it's left traffic) and crossed over the final approach course and then used my newly found 30 degree bank back to the right. This combo had me nicely on final and still high, but this time not crazy high. I chose to go for the gear and flaps followed by a little forward slip. It all worked out pretty perfect with a nice squeaker landing with the engine still at idle. Redemption! On roll out, I realized that I never tried pushing the prop all the way forward and wished I had because I was curious how much that increased the sink rate. I still had some time, so I taxied back, took off and stayed in the pattern and climbed to about 500' above TPA. Pulled to idle and went to best glide. I flew a normal downwind, did the 30 degree bank and ended up a little high on final. Again I chose gear and full flaps, but this time also the prop forward. I slipped a little, however not as much and this time the tires squeaked pretty much on the numbers in a full stall landing. Nice day's work. Anyhow, I still have to do some research and practice strategies for losing altitude, but of course not too much altitude. I like simple round numbers and strategies. Of course the numbers would be different for different weights, but I fly by myself 95% of the time, so these numbers kind of work for me. I recommend everyone go out and see what numbers you get.

amateur's rules for affordability of a Mooney. (1) pay off all the bills at the end of the month. (2) pay the wife's bills as well, no questions asked.... If you can do this, you can afford a Mooney. Real financial challenges.... (1) if your housing is not paid off, you may find yourself short on cash.... (2) if your kids are still in day care, you may find yourself short on cash.... (3) if your kids are on their way to a very expensive college, you may find yourself short on cash... I bought my first M20C just before the daycare expenses started.... If you can get paid OT, do it... Know what you are going to do if you get unemployed or sick or the plane has a financial failure. For fun, find the thread titled "what do you do for work". Or something like that, read it and fill one in... Flying fast is an affordable addiction, get ready for it! Best regards, -a-

Once you have your airplane and you finally get the maintenance under control (the airplane to a level of airworthiness you feel comfortable with) then the costs are quite reasonable. I could take a guess at a usual $2000-3000 annual with another $2K during the year for incidentals. However there is always something else you want to do to "your" airplane. Its kinda like your home. The projects are NEVER done!!! Im still working on that first part..............well thats what i tell the wife. "darling we wont be spending nearly as much just as soon as we do this one last thing"

You can't put a price tag on the memories you make with a Mooney!!!!

Flying in the the SE, hangered, one million smooth insurance, 50%+ LOP so less fuel,CamGuard so lower engine reserve, no grass runways so less chance of damage, flaps on T.O. and landings so less stress on airframe, subscriptions all current so safer and no FAA issue, Plexus on windscreen for better visability, retract flaps right after touchdown so tires & brakes wear longer...the list is endless and variable per pilot. Rusults in about $18,000-22,000 annually.....BUT the wife only knows half the story.

A lot of these posts are right on. Minus a fuel tank reseal about $4000 per side or an engine O/H $30k + or - I would say I have spent around $20k a year flying my 78 J around 150-200 hrs but I am anal and fix things before they break and don't defer anything to annual. I also buy things I dont "really" need like cool LED lights, shiny paint and Goodyear Flight Custom III tires when I could get by with cheeper. I only listed the big ticket items to make sure you accept that these things can get very expensive and if you do not have the disposable income to feed your beautiful J she will become not so much fun to own. However if you have the money take it from me owning my J has been amazing and even though its been over three years I still open the hangar door and cant believe its mine :-) I hope it works out for you.

I own also in large part because I just love having my very own shiny airplane. I love fiddling with it in the hangar sometimes on the weekend hanging out at the airport even if I don't have occasion to fly. Yesterday I did some practice procedures and then I spent 2 hrs flat on my back on my roller board cleaning the under belly of my airplane nice and shiny....I don't clean the underside nearly as much as I should. I spritz a bit of the cleaner fluid in my eye only once - ouch! And the guys right across from my hangar who operate the medical lift helicopter sauntered by in their flight suits to leer at me and chat with me while I was doing it. That's just good fun on a beautiful sunday afternoon. If fondling the underbelly of your airplane sounds like fun to you - then definitely buy instead of rent. Otherwise renting is probably the wiser choice.

Here's my actual experience with an M20J. It's impossible to say how much for sure you will spend because it will depend on many different variables, but at least you have a framework. Oh, and others have said, I never really look at the total number because it's not why I own a plane. But it's good to have a general sense of what the number is before you get started, just so you don't jump in over your head. Insurance: $1500/year Hangar: $375/month Annual: $2500 General maintenance (including extra things during annual): $1000-$3000 year most years Gas Costs: Budget 10 gph for overall LOP operations, I actually beat that but 10 gph makes the math easy. Figure gas anywhere from $5-$6.50/gal depending on where you are. Note that I don't bother to put aside money for the biggies like engine overhaul, etc. That would totally take the fun out of flying! I just figure I'll spend that when I need to.

IF at all possible I would look for a way to keep it in a hanger. Much of that cost can be offset with reduced mx cost, cheaper insurance, less aging and also gives you the ability to find an independent A&P who is willing to come to your hanger and work. That has the potential for a huge savings. The insurance number you have seems high, unless you have low time in which case it will come down considerably after the 1st year. One of the biggest factors in cost seems to be the part of the country you live in. I'm in a rural area and pay $65 month for an enclosed hanger, But have heard that hangers in some large places go for as much as $600 per month.

I agree that for the way the caravan operates, no flaps may be best. However, for all normal Mooney operations, the best argument for ALWAYS using takeoff flaps is to establish it as SOP so that the one time you really need them, you didn't forget to use them!

I had similar concerns and opted for the Aera 560 on the yoke. It is in view of my primary scan and I can easily do entries with my wrist resting on the yoke, very handy during turbulence. I use the Aera XM for weather with the antenna underneath the glareshield. For traffic I have the Traffic Watch connected to the 530W. Since I travel in the Bahamas and the Caribbean ADS-B would not work for me. BTW my hangar neighbor has his GTN-750 tied to his Traffic Watch on his B58. He flies often to Cozumel and Cancun where there is no ADS-B coverage. José

Some tools to assist you if you are high on final with engine out. First, gear down, flaps full, prop full forward. Still too high? Forward slip. If still too high, then wide S-turns while in a forward slip, then bring speed up to 110 MPH.

I called in and scheduled my departure for tomorrow morning at 10:00 AM. The person on the phone asked for my information, tail number. aircraft type, animals on boards, passengers on board, etc. From what they said on the phone, all my passengers need to do is have a Government photo ID. I asked what aircraft documents will be needed, and she said they were just going to check us. So, I'll report what happens but my guess is they are going to check IDs, size us up, maybe check a bad or two, ask to look in/around the plane with sniffing dogs, and then let us depart. I'll summarize after I go through the process. Evidently a few years ago a similar vacation occurred and though AV Fuel sales plummeted, the governed gave a substantial check to the airport for loss of business (PM me I'll tell you the amount). Despite that probably coming this season, from the lack of fuel sales over the next week, the airport manager is likely going to have to layoff one or two people.

I doubt a 4 seat GA airplane full of em or not would make any difference... Even stacked to the ceiling... not talking about "in your bag." Just another example of the govt wasting everyone's time and money for only a false sense of security.

What could you possibly have in your bag on your own plane that is a threat to the president on the ground? They'll let you fly but they'll search your bag? What kind of morons run this thing?

Seth, that is an x-rated post title and I am ashamed of it. Steve

Jeff, I change my oil every 50 hours, and consumption increases as I go along. I get 12-15 hours before needing the first quart, decreasing to 5-6 or so on the last one. I refill with 7 quarts, just above 6 on the dipstick, and try to not let it reach 5. Any more and it auto-corrects down to 6/6-1/2 pretty quickly (like one flight). KLEX isn't too far from here. Isn't there a good restaurant near the field? I may need to come eat . . . P.S.--my A&P here looks after several Mooneys, from my C to a J.

Jim may be interested in coming to MAPA. There is a photo pilot/Bonanza in Dallas area that he has worked with. He also will be at Sun and Fun. There are the costs of the photographer, pilot, plane and fuel. The average shoot costs between $1000-1500. We have 400 plus photos.

I always felt like plane were meant to fly, not hall ass down the runway. I also feel there is a much better safety factor with the flaps down.

Good time to upgrade to one of the PAR46 LED bulbs ... )