Comparing a Mooney to an Arrow

[carusoam]

Is that the Mooney/Butler button hook on the tail of the PC?

Best regards,

-a-

[eaglebkh]

Aside from the performance deltas between Arrow and Mooney, I find the luggage door placement to be odd on the Cherokee airframes.  The door is at the bottom of the cargo area, so a person filling the cargo area from the bottom up can only load about half their luggage through the cargo door.  The rest has to be loaded through the passenger door.  Awkward...

[benpilot]

Agree would rather skip the Piper and get checked out on a Mooney after my PPL.

[Cyril Gibb]

O.K. finally got some time in a M20F last week...  I think I'm sold on a Mooney

The cabin config wasn't what I was used to in a PA28 of various incantations, but flying rather than sitting, the differences disappeared.

Now the process begins... too bad the CDN $ has taken a bit of a dive

[rbridges]

Funny, I owned a T tailed arrow, 1981 normally aspirated.  I found it easy to land, easier than the Ovation I own now.  That said, I do ok in the Mooney too.

Im thinking the arrow is more than 20 knots slower than the ovation, too. Lol

[Hank]

The big difference, based on limited PA-28-200R experience, is the Arrow flies slower, feels like it is lumbering through maneuvers, and you can't pull the throttle out on final unless you want to land short. I've had several Piper pilots express surprise that I pulled throttle to idle on final to glide in at ~75 mph and "nothing happened." The looks on their faces when I do that is classic, now that I know to glance over at them. It is possible to land a Mooney with the throttle still in some, if the runway is long enough--I think Cape Kennedy would suffice. 

[DaV8or]

I have about 100 hours in an Arrow IV. I'm just going to post the advantages as I see them over the M20F,G,J,K the only Mooneys that are a real comparison.

 

Arrow has-

 

a more comfortable cabin for both pilot and passenger.

a bigger door, so loading and unloading people are easier.

thousands of mechanics and shops world wide that are familiar with the type.

more fuselage space, so generally easier to work on and therefore less labor expense.

a low baggage door, so easier to get heavy bags in. However, as pointed out above, you can't fill it as high from outside.

an awesome manual flap system. Simple and effective.

 

I think that's all I can think of right now. If any of these things is super important to you, then maybe the Arrow is the one for you. If your going to shop Arrow, might as well include Cardinals too. They have some advantages as well.

 

I thought of all planes when I bought mine and I didn't have to think all that long after I just got to only just sit in a Mooney.

[N9201A]

Which Arrow (Hershey bar or taper wing) makes some difference, as does turbo and t-tail variants, but across the board my PA28 v. Mooney thoughts that haven't been mentioned above:

 

- Ground handling edge to PA28 if you fly in/out of unimproved strips (better prop clearance, more tolerant gear).

- More mechanics familiar with PA28, access slightly better (only matters if there's no Mooney expertise near you).

- PA28s far, far more forgiving of sloppy handling in all regimes.  PA28 hobby-horse stall is far milder than Mooney wing break;  pilots who have flown their whole lives just thumping the nose down when the mains touch are in for a nasty and potentially expensive shock if they do that in a Mooney.

- PA28 luggage bay may be easier to access for some who do not want to lift and lower bags, PA28 door opening is larger. 

 

In any other way - range (many Arrows have 50-gal tanks in addition to slower per gal burned), speed, useful load, performance-per-dollar, handling, structural integrity (compare construction and wing spars), Mooneys outshine an equivalently-powered PA28.  People who comment on interior size or space need to take a tape measure to both, or spend a few hours flying both.  There's nothing wrong with the Cherokees, they're great birds.  Many Mooney owners have owned one...before they moved up to their Mooney! 

[rbridges]

Which Arrow (Hershey bar or taper wing) makes some difference, as does turbo and t-tail variants, but across the board my PA28 v. Mooney thoughts that haven't been mentioned above:

 

- Ground handling edge to PA28 if you fly in/out of unimproved strips (better prop clearance, more tolerant gear).

- More mechanics familiar with PA28, access slightly better (only matters if there's no Mooney expertise near you).

- PA28s far, far more forgiving of sloppy handling in all regimes.  PA28 hobby-horse stall is far milder than Mooney wing break;  pilots who have flown their whole lives just thumping the nose down when the mains touch are in for a nasty and potentially expensive shock if they do that in a Mooney.

- PA28 luggage bay may be easier to access for some who do not want to lift and lower bags, PA28 door opening is larger. 

 

In any other way - range (many Arrows have 50-gal tanks in addition to slower per gal burned), speed, useful load, performance-per-dollar, handling, structural integrity (compare construction and wing spars), Mooneys outshine an equivalently-powered PA28.  People who comment on interior size or space need to take a tape measure to both, or spend a few hours flying both.  There's nothing wrong with the Cherokees, they're great birds.  Many Mooney owners have owned one...before they moved up to their Mooney! 

 

Definitely.  I learned to be more precise with my speeds in the mooney.  It does not plop on the runway like the piper.

[dcrogers11]

I don't see it mentioned, but I wish Al Mooney's brother-in-law hadn't been in the sheet metal screw business (has to be the only reason he put 10,000 screws on the plane  ), but the Arrow's access to the engine with just a few quick turns of some latchs was great.  Most other brands have easy access as well.  It just makes a complete pre-flight inspection go much easier and quicker.  I also wish my 64C had the same stock windshield profile as Piper came with.  I'll soon take care of that with the 201 windshield, but with additional cost. 

 

Don

[BigTex]

Arrow's access to the engine with just a few quick turns of some latchs was great. Most other brands have easy access as well. It just makes a complete pre-flight inspection go much easier and quicker. Don

True... But for me, I always felt like I was working on an old Ford Model A every time I flipped open the cowling. My C opens with just a few cam locks... Not that bad.

[chrisk]

True... But for me, I always felt like I was working on an old Ford Model A every time I flipped open the cowling. My C opens with just a few cam locks... Not that bad.

Is the Arrow /PA28 the plane where the break fluid reservoir is an old can?

[Jeff_S]

Yes, that is the specially-designed brake fluid receptable in the PA28 line. I know it well!

[Hank]

YGBSM!!! That's a real, approved, manufacturer's original part? For a certified aircraft? Who says the guidelines need to be "loosened," they look loose enough to me!

[chrisk]

YGBSM!!! That's a real, approved, manufacturer's original part? For a certified aircraft? Who says the guidelines need to be "loosened," they look loose enough to me!

It's real.  See page 1-10 for a picture in a plane.  http://www.oy-bbw.dk/arkiv/PA-28%20Cherokee%20A%20Pilot%27s%20Guide.pdf

[rbridges]

Is the Arrow /PA28 the plane where the break fluid reservoir is an old can?

 

isn't that hilarious?  it's like they finished the plane and realized they needed something to hold brake fluid.  Then some guy digs a paint thinner can out of the trash and screws it to the firewall.

[1964-M20E]

Just goes to show you parts do not need to be complicated or be capable of functioning on the space shuttle to work for a very long time.  It worked for them and I sure it was very cost effective.

[John Pleisse]

The entire Cherokee class can't compare to a Mooney. They have lower wing loading making for a less solid ride, mushy control feel, etc. I have 50 hours in Turbo Arrow's, Seminoles and Lance's, all T-tails. They really don't fly very nice. They are docile, but just feel loose. Mooney's, Bonanza's and even big Cessna retracts are better that the Cherokee line.

[Jeff_S]

On two topics:

 

First, the brake fluid reservoir. The photo that was shown above is admittedly a can in very poor shape. I can assure you that in a well-maintained airplane the can looks just fine and never raised any concerns to me. Plus, it's easy to get to and to check/fill. Remember that most of the Cherokee line are designed to be very simple to own/operate/maintain, as many of them were in the trainer fleet.

 

On the flight characteristics of the Cherokee, it is correct to note the different flight tendencies of the line, as they are not designed with the same performance specs as a Mooney or a Bo. But to say that one is "better" than the other seems too subjective to me, as each has its place in the world. I loved my Warrior and put 450 hours on it in under three years, flying it from New England to OSH to Colorado and Florida and elsewhere. I would actually argue that the lighter wing loading made my Warrior MORE responsive than my J.  My first impression with the J was that it took a lot more physical force to turn. (It took me a while to realize that this was a combination of both the speed and the wing loading!).

[KSMooniac]

Hate to break it to anyone, but our reservoir cans are remarkably similar.  The function doesn't call for any fancy part, so use what works and minimize cost! 

[Bob_Belville]

With a 201 windshield on my E, eliminating the original access panel in front of the windshield, the hydraulic reservoir is exceedingly inconvenient to get to.and impossible to check the level. I top it off whenever I have the top cowl off via fitting through the firewall as a precaution.   

[fantom]

..... I couldn't help thinking how nice it would have been for Mooney to have installed a dip stick of some sort into the cap. Would probably be a good project for those with hangar fairies that are more industrious than mine.

 

Until then, I use this expensive tool to check brake fluid:

 

[Oscar Avalle]

Many years ago, I had a nice PA 28 160. I loved the plane, until I saw the light and fell in love with N9341V...

[N201MKTurbo]

I use a flash light. If I can see fluid it is OK, if I can't see any I add some until I can.

[scottfromiowa]

I LIKED THE ARROW A LOT...COMPARED TO A 172 AND A CHEROKEE...THEN I FLEW A MOONEY. THE SPEED WAS/IS ADDICTIVE AND TRUMPS THE ARROW. I FEEL THE HIGH BAGGAGE "TOP LOAD" IS A PLUS. CABIN SIZE/SEATING POSITION IS A PLUS OR A MINUS, DEPENDING ON WHAT YOU LIKE.