Biggest Wind Takeoff/Landing

[201er]

What's the biggest wind that you have taken off or landed in? Was it intentional or winds picked up and your only landing option? What's the biggest direct crosswind you've handled in a Mooney?

 

That said, what are your max overall and crosswinds that you will choose to set out in?

[bnicolette]

Flat lands, hills, ridges, mountains, steady gusting runway length/width But generally anything over 35 and I am done. 15 out of the east anywhere at my home airport and I'm not going. Most xwind I have done to date in the mooney is a factor of 21 but had a long wide runway.

[romair]

Great topic 201er, especially since I am a low hour pilot still on the steep part of the learning curve. 10 kts of crosswind on landing was the most I've done so far. Regarding winds on take-off - I am actually somewhat confused as to what would be safe. Given the recent crash at Angel Fire due to winds, it is obvious to me that at some point controlling the aircraft becomes very difficult. But in the same time when we are in the air on a normal flight, there is wind going against the wings at 150 kts. What makes the take-off any different as long as you are able to keep the centerline until you rotate? Just trying to learn.

Stefan

'89 J

[Joe Zuffoletto]

I took off into a steady 40kt wind that was blowing right down the runway in North Bend, OR. Did the same thing in Kearney, NE. No big deal when it's blowing down the center line. I'm more cautious about crosswinds, especially here in Denver where it's usually quite gusty as well.

[201er]

  On 5/25/2013 at 5:46 PM, romair said:

But in the same time when we are in the air on a normal flight, there is wind going against the wings at 150 kts. What makes the take-off any different as long as you are able to keep the centerline until you rotate? Just trying to learn.

That's cause the 150kt wind moving over the wings is absolutely steady (cause the air isn't moving, just the plane is). Also when you are up high, it's not a big deal when you get tossed around a few dozens or hundred feet. Near the ground that could be life and death. On top of that, wind shear and gusts are much more prevalent near the ground where obstacles shift the wind direction.

[bnicolette]

  On 5/25/2013 at 5:46 PM, romair said:

Given the recent crash at Angel Fire due to winds, it is obvious to me that at some point controlling the aircraft becomes very difficult. But in the same time when we are in the air on a normal flight, there is wind going against the wings at 150 kts. What makes the take-off any different as long as you are able to keep the centerline until you rotate? Just trying to learn.

Stefan

'89 J

 

50 knots of wind on the ground in Salina, Kansas is not a huge deal.  50 knots of wind at Angel Fire is deadly.  Terrain is the dictator here.  As always you have to fly the conditions and environment.  You can't just have one set of limitations.

[N201MKTurbo]

I used to fly daily from Denver to various destinations in Wyoming which I think is the windiest place on earth. I landed in Laramie one day with a 70 knot cross wind. A Beech 1900 was on its third aborted takeoff attempt when I landed. It wasn't really a landing as much as hovering down to the runway. I still had flying speed after I stopped. My ground speed at touchdown was zero and the plane was almost perpendicular to the runway. The landing was actually pretty easy. Taxiing to the ramp was the real adventure. Luckily a man from the FBO saw me taxi in and came out and tied me down while i was flying the plane in the parking space.

I'm not advocating this, I was 26 years old with a plane and thought I was bulletproof.

[rob]

Those of us living in the plains would probably never dispatch if we had to keep winds down below 20 or so. I've encountered 50+ mph winds in Kansas, Nebraska, and even upper Michigan. Like N201MK, I've put down in winds that were nearly enough to make the airplane fly. I once landed in Kearney with minimal fuel, it was an adventure getting to the ramp after landing with about 18" of manifold and ~20 kts groundspeed....

 

Generally speaking though, if the winds are steady, it's a non-event. When you get into the 30G50 stuff that's when the fun starts. We get that a lot here in Kansas.

[aaronk25]

Landed a archer 3 years ago at 60 degree crosswind 36 gusting 47kts. Almost a controlled crash to the runway. I thought I hit the right wing tip during a gust but I got lucky and didnt scratch it.

That was at night also. These days I'm more skilled but more conservative. That was back during my single days and there was a incentive to get to where I was going if you know what I mean. Stupid.

[AmigOne]

Funny how we remember the screw ups although they happened years ago. In my 201, in PA somewhere, with winds gusting to 40 kts, my technique was not good and had to put too much braking on one side to stay on the runway ruining one tire (bold spot).

[Hank]

Rapid City, enroute to Yellowstone with my wife and mucho luggage. Winds were 50 degrees left of the runway, 20G28. I had almost 200 hours, VFR, with > 100 in my Mooney.

Went to CRW during Instrument training, landed on 23 several times. Winds were 250@12G17, 200V310. Made for a fun ILS, especially when I sped up to 130 mph for the Lear behind me. Practice how you're gonna fly, cause what you will land in doesn't always match the forecast.

I don't have absolute limits, it depends upon the location and direction relative to the runway.

[RocketAviator]

  On 5/25/2013 at 6:22 PM, Bnicolette said:

50 knots of wind on the ground in Salina, Kansas is not a huge deal.  50 knots of wind at Angel Fire is deadly.  Terrain is the dictator here.  As always you have to fly the conditions and environment.  You can't just have one set of limitations.

Could not agree more with Bnicolette!  Another thing I am a big believer on is encouraging ALL pilots to practice in wind conditions starting from light to more.... I had an old Navy pilot who was a pain in the @$%$# as an instructor but he said "boy if you only fly in fair weather you will never fly..& fly safely."  So for several months as the conditions allowed every time the wind blew... and it blows often and strong here in El Paso... we would go fly and more often than not be the only ones flying at the single runway airport!  He taught me how to determine if the crosswind component was reasonably for me to manageable with my skills and the aircraft we were flying and what to do if not... luckily for us we have KELP a short 10 miles away with runways in all directions!   The old guy was SO right as many times as I now fly IFR cross country frequently and I DON'T CARE how much or how often you check the weather IT WILL CHANGE!!!!   Much can be done and done safely, the secret to LIFE is knowing which is which!  

 

So best to learn what the limitations are and abide by them or die by them it is your choice!  I encourage all pilots to practice in not so fair weather that is safe and within your personal ability (grow you ability slowly) with a good instructor, best time and money I ever spent!

 

odd the older I get the smarter those old guys are!

Fly safe,

Rocket On!

[Z W]

I have landed with a 20G30 direct crosswind in the Mooney. I would not recommend it. I now will not dispatch if it is forecast to be that high. It almost always dies down if you wait a few hours. 15G25 is standard operating procedure for me. I have landed at Amarillo, TX in 45-knot winds, but only about 20 degrees off runway heading. It was a non-event.

[Awful_Charlie]

I've not answered the poll as it's a bit non-specific.  For a start, are we talking knots or mph (or km/h or m/sec )  And then whose wind are you taking?  Over here, the wind reported by the tower is the wind at 10m/30', which is often significantly higher than that you can measure on the ground, and further different to the wind at the level where the wings are (2-4' AGL).  FWIW, as I was returning home last weekend, the wind at circuit height (800' AGL) was 45kts straight across the runway, but the landing was more like it was 10kts 30 or 40 degrees off, so a massive difference.  If the tower reported more than 50kts I would be hesitant about taxiing, more than 35kts crosswind for take off would make me consider the options, but on landing, it will just about always be make an approach, and go around if I don't like it - after all, you've got to land sometime, even if it is when the fuel runs out!

[Marauder]

Like Brett mentions above, airport terrain and wind direction plays a role in my decision. I have taken off with a sustained 20 knot direct crosswind at my home airport. It's not the takeoff as much as the rough ride clearing the tree line that is challenging. The highest I ever landed was a 25k direct crosswind. I started losing rudder authority and had to cheat a few degrees on the runway heading to offset the drift.

[N201MKTurbo]

The real limiting factor in the Mooney is the rudder. If the rudder peddle is all the way to the floor and you cannot straighten out the plane then it is too much crosswind. You will need to find another runway.

 

Another thing you can do is angleize on the runway. If the wind is from the right, land on the left edge of the runway and roll out towards the right side of the runway. This only works on wide runways.

[bnicolette]

  On 5/28/2013 at 9:14 PM, N201MKTurbo said:

 

 

Another thing you can do is angleize on the runway. If the wind is from the right, land on the left edge of the runway and roll out towards the right side of the runway. This only works on wide runways.

 

How wide was the runway in Laramie?  Must have been wider than it was long?  LOL  Apparently there is enough rudder for a 70 kt cross wind.  Who would've thunk it? 

 

  On 5/25/2013 at 7:47 PM, N201MKTurbo said:

 I landed in Laramie one day with a 70 knot cross wind.

[carusoam]

Caution...

Some Mooney's rudders are shorter than others... (less effective)

Know which one you have.

Best regards,

-a-

[aviatoreb]

  On 5/25/2013 at 7:47 PM, N201MKTurbo said:

I used to fly daily from Denver to various destinations in Wyoming which I think is the windiest place on earth. I landed in Laramie one day with a 70 knot cross wind. A Beech 1900 was on its third aborted takeoff attempt when I landed. It wasn't really a landing as much as hovering down to the runway. I still had flying speed after I stopped. My ground speed at touchdown was zero and the plane was almost perpendicular to the runway. The landing was actually pretty easy. Taxiing to the ramp was the real adventure. Luckily a man from the FBO saw me taxi in and came out and tied me down while i was flying the plane in the parking space.

I'm not advocating this, I was 26 years old with a plane and thought I was bulletproof.

 

I always liked this wyoming windsock picture:

 

http://www.tripadvisor.com/LocationPhotoDirectLink-g60503-i38336851-Laramie_Wyoming.html

[jlunseth]

My biggest concern in flying is unforecast conditions at the airport of intended landing, which happens when you get in a plane and 4 1/2 hours later are somewhere else in the country entirely different from where you started.  We once flew Taos to Minneapolis with a great west to east tailwind caused by a large cyclonic low over the Dakotas, we averaged around 240GS with speed increasing as the trip progressed as I recall and made the trip in one hop.  When we got to KFCM the low had advanced much faster than forecast and the winds were strongds, but were still within my personal limit at 240 15G25 (the runway is 280).  On short final behind a Citation tower announced "Winds now 230 37 gusting to 54 ."  However, the Citation was not affected as heavily as I would have expected by winds of that force, so we landed and it was, well, I won't say uneventful, but safe and touchdown was fairly smooth, sufficient rudder authority at 90 knots airspeed and upwind main down first followed by downwind main and nose..  The one issue I have found with touchdowns in very strong crosswinds is not the moment of touchdown itself.  With some extra airspeed and good technique that can be managed.  It is immediately after touchdown and during run out when the aircraft, we hope, is slowing, and the plane is now a car and not an aircraft.  Winds of that strength want to push the aircraft across the runway, and it will skitter a little as the nose wheel tries to assert authority.  Better to have a wide and long runway.

[AndyFromCB]

  On 5/25/2013 at 6:03 PM, colojo said:

I took off into a steady 40kt wind that was blowing right down the runway in North Bend, OR. Did the same thing in Kearney, NE. No big deal when it's blowing down the center line. I'm more cautious about crosswinds, especially here in Denver where it's usually quite gusty as well.

 

Denver can be fun, I managed 3 go arounds there once before putting her down. It was only 30knots but it seemed to me like it was 0knots gusting to 30 with the added high density altitude and complete lack of "cushion", it felt like the bottom dropped out each time. On my successful touchdown, the airspeed went from 90knots (yes, that's what I was aiming for, the runway is 2 miles long) to 60knots in an instant. Slammed the brakes and retracted the flaps to prevent liftoff with the next gust. 

 

Best I've ever done was 41knots almost straight down runway 27 in Cheyenne. Yes, that whole area of Wyoming is like that. After we landed, next few days were all like that. The take off roll was non-existent, even with 9000ft DA. Really, I simply gave it a throttle and we were up. I kept in ground effect for a while just in case all that wind was going to stop.

 

Now, 20 to 25knots here in Iowa is the norm and I can attest to the fact that a long bodied mooney can land in 20knot direct crosswind. Anything higher than that, there will be a bold spot on the tire, don't ask me how I know.

[Scopes]

I am curious about others with an E with the shorter rudder (mine is 64 E super21)- I had a direct xwind 27 kts and felt like i ran out of rudder and started upwind side of runway and ended up WELL off the centreline by the time I touched down (200 foot wide runway), this was my third flight after getting PPL, returning from Wilmar with my new shock discs, and found the experience quite sweaty

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[N201MKTurbo]

  On 5/29/2013 at 12:31 AM, Bnicolette said:

How wide was the runway in Laramie?  Must have been wider than it was long?  LOL  Apparently there is enough rudder for a 70 kt cross wind.  Who would've thunk it?

When the wind is that strong your ground speed is very low. This day my ground speed on touchdown was zero! I could have landed in a parking space.

[N201MKTurbo]

  On 5/29/2013 at 12:31 AM, Bnicolette said:

How wide was the runway in Laramie?  Must have been wider than it was long?  LOL  Apparently there is enough rudder for a 70 kt cross wind.  Who would've thunk it?

When the wind is that strong your ground speed is very low. This day my ground speed on touchdown was zero! I could have landed in a parking space.

[aviatoreb]

  On 6/2/2013 at 12:33 PM, N201MKTurbo said:

When the wind is that strong your ground speed is very low. This day my ground speed on touchdown was zero! I could have landed in a parking space.

 

My friend and I did that about 4 years ago in his piper cub - vtol was very cool in a yellow piper.