Scopes

I suspect you’re going to get a lot of input here but my 2 cents (also having a 1964 E) is what you already know - high density altitude and high weights - for me the owners manual table is pretty accurate but I wonder how accurate your weight& balance calculation is. 2 large adults (say 220 lbs each) plus 40g fuel would put me at 2268 - you were almost 200 lbs heavier in terms of shortest runway for takeoff, I think that is definitely based on your comfort and experience - my Mooney training was on a 3000’ runway, I’m ok with 2000 for takeoff but would rather not land on one that short, but would definitely want to be spot-on with W&B

One other point in the section on speeds, the speeds I use and listed in my encyclopedic 6-page long official FAA approved Mooney M20E flight manual are different (and are all generally higher so I wonder if these are M20C or A speeds); also a great resource is the Mooney Pilot Proficiency Program Manual - do you have that one? j.

Ok I stand corrected on the procedure you noted with no fuel pump - I must have read that at some point but didn't recall and have never tried it - to me I don't understand How moving the throttle back and forth without the fuel pump on or running the starter would work but seems like it works for people Have you tried that method with success? thanks for the hard work j.

Sorry had more to say: on runup I would consider moving the "boost pump on" to much later in the sequence, essentially to the immediate pre-takeoff part (I am a CB and when that pump is running I just hear hundred dollar bills being torn up) overall nice work and I will use yours with slight modification as above! joel. M20E super 21

This looks amazing - I had started doing it for my m20e based on another checklist I had done in iAuditor but yours is very thorough, well done. for hot starts I use technique 3 followed by flooded procedure - have always got it going with one or the other on hot start technique 1 you may have missed the part where you run the fuel pump while throttle is full forward

Here are more excerpts from Paul's email - I don't know about the FAA processes (I'm just hoping to be able to install a modern autopilot) but it looks like he is working closely with FAA representatives on it Joel 1964 M20E "Functionally the A/P is the same A/P. GPSS and GPVS functionality will be included in the package. There will be some modifications based on requirements that we are negotiating with the FAA. See below. We are so busy at this time that the A/P will NOT support ILS/VOR/LOC functionality. You will have full GPS Navigator integration for panel mount units. So you can execute RNAV LPV approaches if you are so equipped. All other avionics “technical” questions should be forwarded to Trio Avionics for a response. I am not the correct person to answer them. The Experimental version of the autopilot is not a PMA’d unit and cannot be installed in certified airplanes. You asked what PMA’s means? It means we have “hardened” the autopilot. The units have different circuit boards and programming modifications to comply with portions of DO178B and other FAA regulations / requirements. We are receiving feedback from different departments within the FAA on an ongoing basis regarding additional “modifications” that may be required. Some of these include lighting, annunciations, etc. These “recommendations” came out of FAA flight test. This is ongoing but A/P’s will be available at AirVenture."

Further update from the STC group on the Trio autopilot, Paul is now looking for a "firm commitment" (but no deposit at this time) for people interested in this when available, see below, it looks like major announcement pending on this at Airventure. Costs for the STC'd A/P will be $5000 or less, and install kit about $2000 (includes STC). If enough Mooneys show interest, then they will move us up the priority list, FWIW I have given my firm commitment. Joel "Cessna 172, 182 owners. We are offering a 15% discount on the 172 and 182 install kits after STC approval in April for Pre-Production installs. This will require that you owners give us feedback on hours incurred and any “kit modifications” required for your type specific model airplane. We will build 20 to 30 pre-production kits. I will need the make, model, year, and serial number of the aircraft along with your full name, email, and phone number. For the balance of the group, I would like to know if I can count on you for a “firm” commitment to purchase the autopilot. No deposits right now. We will let you know when that will happen. I am going to start focusing THE STC GROUP engineering efforts towards those aircraft types where there is the most “firm order” commitments. I will put out an updated spreadsheet for everyone next month so you can see where your group stands on “firm” orders. I am asking this so that Chuck and I can “size” the production model to support you. We’d like to go into AirVenture with enough autopilots and install kits to immediately supply demand. We don’t want to have initial backorders if possible."

Here is the latest update, see below for numbers (mooney 14) - contact Paul if interested to move mooney up the list! Looks like Cessna and Piper requests are dominating Joel "Folks, I know you are all excited about the Trio Autopilot project. The project is progressing smoothly. I am confident that we will have the STC “in hand” at AirVenture 2017. The schedule slipped due to some “politics”. The STC Group and Trio plans to show a Cessna 182H and Piper Dakota at Sun N Fun 2017. Here are the latest standings in the polls as of Saturday December 17, 2016. Remember that we will be adding aircraft to the STC based upon customer interest. I will update the list monthly going forward. If you want your model moved up the list please continue to generate that buzz we discuss on the last update email. Cessna Twins 2 Twin Bonanza 6 Socata 5 Piper Lance 3 Piper PA28 63 Navion 1 Mooney 14 Maule 4 Grumman 2 Twin Comanche 10 Twin Comanche will be covered after we have completed the 172 project. Our “in house” attorney owns a PA-30. I hope this will cover the Comanche lineup. Cessna 180, 182, 185 68 There are other models of this type not mentioned in this group. Cessna 182 covered on first STC application. Cessna L-19 1 Cessna Cardinal 17 All models Cessna 337 1 Cessna 205 – 210 8 205, 206, 207, 210, etc. Cessna 172 20 Cessna 172 type covered on first STC application Twin Bonanza 4 I though there were more of you ? Bellanca 1 Beech Baron 1 Cheers, Paul C. Odum The STC Group Mobile +1 805 304 5246 You'll never be lost at Mach 2 with a Trio Autopilot !

I have contacted Paul Odum who is championing this STC, he is working with several engineers also, and he is open to pursuing the STC for other airframes after the Cessna one is completed, please see his email below and note that he would like a show of interest, so if we want to "vote up" the Mooney let him know! It's Pauldotodumatsbcglobaldotnet I am not involved in this other than being very interested in getting the Mooney STC done so I can install one of these... Joel 64 M20E All, Here is the standings on Type Group Interest. If you would like your type group to get moved up the list of aircraft we will add to the STC I would like you to generate some “buzz” in your type forums. I’ll look at the numbers each week. In January we are going to start “measuring up” new types or the install kits, drawings packages and other paperwork required to add to the STC. Here is a closer look. Most of the buzz so far has been “word of mouth”. These are good numbers for that type of advertising. Please have your form leads and your aircraft type magazines send me contact information for advertising. I’ll get that over to Chuck and Jerry and Trio Avionics. Cessna 58 Piper 33 Socata 4 Beech (All) 14 Comanche 4 Grumman 2 Maule 1 Mooney 3

Cody, thanks for the reassurance I really appreciate that you would take the time to provide your expertise here! Joel

Question for the propeller guys: just installing new top prop for M20E, the IO360 has the "K" type engine flange, and the prop supplied is "R" type; the manual and the Hartzell tech assure me that "R" can be installed on "K" flange in either mating position (180 deg) (and that in fact Hartzell does not even produce a "K" prop flange since the 1960's). I'm just looking for reassurance from some of you knowledgeable MS'ers that there is no known issue with having the one additional counterbored hole on the prop hub mated to a non-"drive-bushing" site on the engine flange. the old prop was HC-C2YK-1BF the new prop is HC-C2YR-1BFP thanks Joel 1964 M20E

I have the hartzell HC-C2YK-1BF with F7666-A2 blades - the hub requires the 100 hour EC test - it is due for overhaul and I am replacing it instead ; I have just ordered a top prop so I will be looking to sell this prop in about 4 weeks. Not sure what it's worth, I realize the AD hubs are less desirable. Can send prop log if you're interested. Joel 64 M20E

Great thanks guys - my training at our aerodrome was to climb out at 2500 for noise abatement but it's just a guideline so I will go with the 2-blade and climb out louder and faster!

I'm currently looking at replacing my prop with top prop conversion (still have AD hub and the cost of overhaul with replacement of hub was quoted higher than the top prop) and am leaning towards the 2-blade (8500) over the 3-blade (9700) but my concern is the rpm restriction on the M20E application: 2-blade - "no cont. ops above 24" manifold pressure between 2350 and 2550 rpm" 3-blade - "avoid cont. ops below 15" between 1950 and 2350 rpm" what do people think? Does the more permissive operation of the 3-blade cancel out some of the disadvantages of 3-blade on io360 (weight and cruise speed) - I guess you would run the 2-blade above 2550 on climb out to altitude where you won't make 24"

My experience is same as Ned's, with typical temp's hovering around 300 (max 330 in the summer, 290's in cold weather) using EI UBG monitor. ('64 E).

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Is anyone able to advise me on suitable replacement for a corroded fuel quantity transmitter - currently having fuel bladders installed and the installer indicates the right side transmitter is corroded and needs replacement, but I don't know if there is a PMA'd part I could get from Spruce or if it needs to come from Mooney or LASAR - if it is covered somewhere on the forum I was not able to discover it on searching, but if someone could point me to that info I would appreciate it Thanks, Joel Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

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Thanks for the advice everyone, I will likely try the aft belly location

Question for any M20E owners with stormscope - where did you locate the antenna and did you have skinmapping done? I bought an old WX900 and am trying to get it installed but running into issue as there is no skinmapping device available at any avionics shop in my area. I was thinking about mounting under the tail in the current location of the strobe, and removing the strobe by replacing with aveo wingtip LED strobes (I know, that's an entirely different topic). If there is consensus on location which consistently has mapped out as a good spot, I will try it there. Thanks Joel 1964 M20E

Jose, question for you: my UBG16 is directly in front of me right of a CDI and it gets a lot of my attention; I have considered moving it to the same place you put yours but was concerned about it being too far away to scan frequently and maybe difficult to reach the switches to cycle the screens . Has this been an issue for you? I would agree the company is excellent for support, and Tyler has provided help to me in sorting out an issue that turned out to be loose pins on the cannon connector and even supplied me with a pin-pulling tool! Thanks Tyler , Joel K.

i have 6948U ser#318 here in the GWN, but it's called CGTOE now

I am curious about others with an E with the shorter rudder (mine is 64 E super21)- I had a direct xwind 27 kts and felt like i ran out of rudder and started upwind side of runway and ended up WELL off the centreline by the time I touched down (200 foot wide runway), this was my third flight after getting PPL, returning from Wilmar with my new shock discs, and found the experience quite sweaty Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

This may be a dumb question, but regarding the AOA sensor part being installed only on one wing is that an issue in situations where you are dealing with one wing stalling eg in the skidding turn to final? From what i understood from the APS video, the skidding turn alters the stall characteristic of the wing that has become more "swept back" in it's relation to the airflow resulting in stall occurring from wingtip and progressing to root (opposite to what should happen with our stall strips); if your AOA sensor is on the outboard wing to the skid can it detect this situation developing? P.S. i don't post much (new pilot) but learn tons from you guys Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

I got one from LASAR last fall, can't remember exactly what they charged but I think 20 or 30 bucks. Condition was as new.