Oil Analysis Kits

[rockydoc]

I have always thought that the best way to do oil analysis was by cutting the filter in half (if you have one) and sending it off.  Several people on this forum have made reference to Blakstone labs being a good oil testing lab.  When I go onto their website, they suggest that you take your oil sampler from the dip stick.  I would like to have this forum's comments on the reliability of the test results by taking the sample this way.

[BigTex]

I believe Blackstone recommends that you take it mid-stream while draining the oil during a change.  They say it's possible to obtain a sample via the dipstick but I don't think that's what they'd recommend.

[bnicolette]

At every oil change my shop cuts the filter and inspects it and also grabs a sample of oil which i send off to Avlab for analysis.

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[bnicolette]

I believe Blackstone recommends that you take it mid-stream while draining the oil during a change.  They say it's possible to obtain a sample via the dipstick but I don't think that's what they'd recommend.

 

Avlab provides a tube in their kit so that you can syphon some oil out if you want to have an analysis between oil changes.

[Cruiser]

the trouble with any oil analysis is contamination.

 

All the labs are reporting metallic properties in PPM (parts per million) so the slightest amount of foriegn material such as a dirty hose, surface grit or some sludge can throw off the results significantlly.

It is thought that samples from the oil filter can contain excessive levels because the filter traps them in the paper element.

 

Regardless of your method, be consistent. The important thing with oil analysis is change over time. You really can't tell anything for just one or two samples. You need to be concerned with the trends.

[romair]

Speaking of oil filters...do you guys cut the ends to get the paper out, or just look in between the folds of the paper. My mechanic said its a bit of catch 22...you get a better view by cutting the ends and unrolling the paper, but in so doing you can introduce metal from the cutting process itself....

[DonMuncy]

Use a large sharp knife, like a butcher knife, and cut all the way down to the "core" just inside the metal ends of the filter. You may have to mangle the metal ends with pliers to get the paper to come way. Then "un-accordian" the paper and check it carefully. You shouldn't have any contamination.

Very messy process. I usually sit mine on end for a couple of days before cutting to let the oil drain out. Still messy, but not quite as bad.

[rockydoc]

the trouble with any oil analysis is contamination.

 

All the labs are reporting metallic properties in PPM (parts per million) so the slightest amount of foriegn material such as a dirty hose, surface grit or some sludge can throw off the results significantlly.

It is thought that samples from the oil filter can contain excessive levels because the filter traps them in the paper element.

 

Regardless of your method, be consistent. The important thing with oil analysis is change over time. You really can't tell anything for just one or two samples. You need to be concerned with the trends.

That being said, if I elect to monitor oil between oil changes, it seems that consistency in the way and the location that the sample is obtained is the most important factor as well as avoiding contamination of the sample.  i.e. dipstick.  Or, is there some other way to get a sample between changes without draining the sump..  

[PTK]

My lab as well recommends catching a sample midstream when draining oil while warm after a flight? I agree, the key here is consistency and monitor trends. Same methodology every time. A quick drain makes it a lot easier and less messy to catch it midstream. I also make sure a new piece of drain hose is connected to quick drain when oil sample will be taken. Invariably a mechanic will use any old hose they have around which will contaminate your sample with someone else's oil. 

[fantom]

Don has a good process, above.

in addition I rinse the fluted paper into a pot with some mineral spirits, then run a magnet wand in the pot, in the now empty filter, and over anything on the paper.

Nothing but a bit of grit on the magnet head and your good to go.

Anything more than one oil analysis a year for trending is a waste of $.

[rockydoc]

Don has a good process, above.

in addition I rinse the fluted paper into a pot with some mineral spirits, then run a magnet wand in the pot, in the now empty filter, and over anything on the paper.

Nothing but a bit of grit on the magnet head and your good to go.

Anything more than one oil analysis a year for trending is a waste of $.

Only one oil analysis per year!   How about one every 25-50 hours?  Seriously.  That comes as a total surprize.  Are you saying that there will be no significant change in 25-50 hours?   You figure an annual total hours of around 100 for the average Mooney?

[fantom]

Only one oil analysis per year!   How about one every 25-50 hours?  Seriously.  That comes as a total surprize.  Are you saying that there will be no significant change in 25-50 hours?   You figure an annual total hours of around 100 for the average Mooney?

What I'm saying is I don't know of a single instance, first hand, in over 4,500 hours of flying in 30 years where an oil analysis ever identified a failing engine, beforehand. If you cut and inspect your filter at each oil change, then oil analysis isn't necessary in my experience.

 

But if it makes you feel good, and you're have it done three or four times a year...no big deal, and sort of akin to the comfort level some get from flying around with three or four GPS's. YMMV

[rockydoc]

What I'm saying is I don't know of a single instance, first hand, in over 4,500 hours of flying in 30 years where an oil analysis ever identified a failing engine, beforehand. If you cut and inspect your filter at each oil change, then oil analysis isn't necessary in my experience.

 

But if it makes you feel good, and you're have it done three or four times a year...no big deal, and sort of akin to the comfort level some get from flying around with three or four GPS's. YMMV

Well, you've certainly given me food for thought.  Thanks for sharing your perspective.

[NotarPilot]

I'm hearing the best thing you can do is a bore scope inspection every 50 hours. That can actually give you advance warning of some serious engine problems. You want to look at the valves as they can give you about a 50 hour warning before a catastrophic engine failure.

[38Blackfin]

I'm hearing the best thing you can do is a bore scope inspection every 50 hours. That can actually give you advance warning of some serious engine problems. You want to look at the valves as they can give you about a 50 hour warning before a catastrophic engine failure.

 

Doesn't seem like a bad idea to me.

 

Having cared for a couple of diesels for several years, my routine was to change the oil, then pull samples at about 20 hours. Caterpillar's oil sample kits came with a handy-dandy little vacuum pump integrated with the lid of the sample jar, and a bunch of tubing to pull from the dipstick tube- easy and cheap.

 

Randy

[Ksaunders]

Just got my Blackstone Labs report back on my 5/8/13 oil change.  55 hours since last change (9) months ago.  My report says my Chromium average was 9 and universal averages for IO-360-A3B6D (519 total hours since new) should be 3.  Also my Iron rated 49 and universal averages should be 23.  My lead at 4359 seemed high compared to 3613 universal averages.  Aluminum 9 vs. 6.  Copper 8 vs. 7.  Nickle 4 vs. 2.    

 

I have not had a chance to speak with my mechanic yet but spent all night tossing and turning worrying about the report.  Why do I have a worse feeling about this than the results of my recent Health and Wellness Physical??  

 

Any advice here? 

[Marauder]

Just got my Blackstone Labs report back on my 5/8/13 oil change. 55 hours since last change (9) months ago. My report says my Chromium average was 9 and universal averages for IO-360-A3B6D (519 total hours since new) should be 3. Also my Iron rated 49 and universal averages should be 23. My lead at 4359 seemed high compared to 3613 universal averages. Aluminum 9 vs. 6. Copper 8 vs. 7. Nickle 4 vs. 2. I have not had a chance to speak with my mechanic yet but spent all night tossing and turning worrying about the report. Why do I have a worse feeling about this than the results of my recent Health and Wellness Physical?? Any advice here?

Do you have any earlier reports for your engine? The greatest value I find in these analyses is the trend that is produced. If a wear metal is steadily increasing, it may indicate a potential failure or unacceptable wear resulting in not making TBO. It also may be mormal for the engine as normal wear occurs as it gets closer to TBO. The ultimate indicator is either a pure mechanical failure shown by finding metal or some other indicator that a failure has actually occurred (like failing a compression test). These lab results are just a potential indicator of engine health and need to be cross correlated with what a mechanical inspection uncovers. When I send these results to my mechanic, if he finds something elevated he will try to use that knowledge to see if there are any physical indicators of the problem. I had an elevated silicon level this past time. His inspection included a close look at the air intake to make sure I didn't have a leak and was sucking in dirt and to see if any silicon based gaskets were showing signs of wear. We concluded since my airport's taxi way was being rebuilt that the inch of dust I needed to clear off my plane after a few days was probably the culprit.

[RobertE]

What I'm saying is I don't know of a single instance, first hand, in over 4,500 hours of flying in 30 years where an oil analysis ever identified a failing engine, beforehand. If you cut and inspect your filter at each oil change, then oil analysis isn't necessary in my experience.

 

But if it makes you feel good, and you're have it done three or four times a year...no big deal, and sort of akin to the comfort level some get from flying around with three or four GPS's. YMMV

 

 

For what it's worth, I second that and would go a bit further.  Is there anyone on this forum who, in response to funny numbers from an oil analysis, took an action other than "keeping an eye on it"?  An odd oil analysis plus bits of metal in the filter is a different matter.  But oil analysis alone?  I've not heard of anyone doing anything concrete.

[Marauder]

For what it's worth, I second that and would go a bit further.  Is there anyone on this forum who, in response to funny numbers from an oil analysis, took an action other than "keeping an eye on it"?  An odd oil analysis plus bits of metal in the filter is a different matter.  But oil analysis alone?  I've not heard of anyone doing anything concrete.

 

To your point and fantom's; most of us who do these, do so for our comfort. Would I stop flying an engine if I got a high iron number back, absolutely. I want to know why it is high. But just like every other diagnostic test in the world, it is just one indicator and not necessarily an end all, know all test. Just another data point.

 

Sort of like when you go in for your physical and your BP is up. Would you rather know the root cause and possible explanations for it being elevated or should the doc just start open heart surgery?

 

Here is an article: http://www.avweb.com/news/savvyaviator/190242-1.html

[Oldguy]

For what it's worth, I second that and would go a bit further.  Is there anyone on this forum who, in response to funny numbers from an oil analysis, took an action other than "keeping an eye on it"?  An odd oil analysis plus bits of metal in the filter is a different matter.  But oil analysis alone?  I've not heard of anyone doing anything concrete.

Second-hand, I did. Or at least the owner a couple of years back. Had a reman done on the engine, ran it for a while and had oil samples done. One came back with outrageously high copper - it had apparently spun a bearing. They pulled the engine and caught it before it became a paperweight at altitude. Of course it was over 500 hours into the reman, so he just had to pay for it. But that made a believer out of me.