generators for pre-heat

[bd32322]

Do you guys carry light gas powered generators in your aircraft for pre-heating at airports away from home base?

I am wondering what safety precautions to take when carrying a generator with gas in it or if its a good idea at all ...

 

I haven't bought one yet - but I am thinking of doing so - one of the Honda EU1000 units

[aaronk25]

Boy they are really durable and strong and I would imagine if the gas top was secured and the unit were thrown against the floor it probably wouldn't break. My point is in a crash, and that's what we're talking about here I don't think it would leak.

I don't worry one bit about it. Also its easy to tie down to luggage area.

Aaron

[1964-M20E]

Keep a battery charger handy and if you alternator goes out in flight you can start the generator and plug in the battery charger.  

Oh do not forget to open the vent window and all other cabin vents wouldn't want CO poisoning.

 

Sorry I couldn't resist especially since I live and fly in a warmer portion of the country.

 

However, maybe we can make a mini APU type unit, fueld from our main tanks, for our planes to take care of pre-heat, dead batteries and backup vacuum.  Just a thought.

[bd32322]

Keep a battery charger handy and if you alternator goes out in flight you can start the generator and plug in the battery charger.  

Oh do not forget to open the vent window and all other cabin vents wouldn't want CO poisoning.

 

Sorry I couldn't resist especially since I live and fly in a warmer portion of the country.

 

However, maybe we can make a mini APU type unit, fueld from our main tanks, for our planes to take care of pre-heat, dead batteries and backup vacuum.  Just a thought.

 

 

Although made in jest - its an interesting thought for us in cold climates

The Honda generator is less than 30 pounds. I am sure with 4x the cost, the aviation grade one can be made lighter and can function as an APU. And as a backup for when the alternator quits.

 

Also in that case I would want overhead switches for APU control - will make me feel cool

[aaronk25]

Generator used as back up to alternator = smart asses!

[1964-M20E]

Generator used as back up to alternator = smart asses!

Smart asses yes thank you very much.  

 

However the APU idea is out the box for small planes but an approved one would probably run more than the cost of the airplane itself by the time the FA approved it.  On the other hand a portable one just might work. i.e. honda generator

[RJBrown]

The smallest Honda generator, the EU100i, weighs 29 pounds dry. It has a 12 volt 8amp output built in. It will kill you if you run it inside a plane. In flight a second battery would be more reasonable as a back up. On the ground one of these could run your preheat and charge your battery. The next larger generator weighs 47 pounds dry. More than I would care to lift through the baggage door.

[bd32322]

I am curious whether airports will just let me have a gas generator running underneath my aircraft while I am away from the airport. Some might cite safety concerns or what not - who knows.

 

Anybody actually leave a gas generator unattended at an airport for preheating purposes?

[aaronk25]

I've never had a issue, just make sure your parked in a permenante spot, so they don't have to hassle with it.

I lock mine to the front wheel. I wish I had the 1000 as its lighter!

[RJBrown]

I lock mine to the shelter and leave it running for the night.

[kmyfm20s]

I've never had a issue, just make sure your parked in a permenante spot, so they don't have to hassle with it.

I lock mine to the front wheel. I wish I had the 1000 as its lighter!

  

I lock mine to the shelter and leave it running for the night.

Do you 2 run 100LL in them or do they require unleaded?

[RJBrown]

I dont see why you couldn't use 100LL. I have only used car gas though.

[kmyfm20s]

It looks like the specs on the Yamaha EF1000iS are better than the Honda, lighter, quieter and runs longer. I have the 2400 model for a RV and I have been really happy with it. Is 1000 watts enough for the per heater? I though most preheaters where in the 1200 to 1500 watt range. If that's the case I assume they just wouldn't hit max temperature.

[aaronk25]

I dont see why you couldn't use 100LL. I have only used car gas though.

Not supposed to run 100ll but, like anything some probably wouldn't hurt.

[aaronk25]

It looks like the specs on the Yamaha EF1000iS are better than the Honda, lighter, quieter and runs longer. I have the 2400 model for a RV and I have been really happy with it. Is 1000 watts enough for the per heater? I though most preheaters where in the 1200 to 1500 watt range. If that's the case I assume they just wouldn't hit max temperature.

The highest wattage heater is a reiff "turbo" model with 4 100w cylinder bands and 2 100w sump pads, which uses 600w total power. Non "turbo" models are 50w bands and use a single 100w sump heater.

So 600w is what they use. Tanis only has 3 cylinders heated out of 4 and is less wattage.

On a 6 cylinder model rieff turbo it would be 600w for 6 cylinder bands plus 2 100w sumps so 800w continuous.

Yamaha makes great stuff also.

Glad I brought my Honda with me to LGA as I'm parked out in the sticks. Not to cold but with oil at 40 degrees, a quick plug in for 15min and a cup of coffee and 50w oil will be good to go.

[kmyfm20s]

The highest wattage heater is a reiff "turbo" model with 4 100w cylinder bands and 2 100w sump pads, which uses 600w total power. Non "turbo" models are 50w bands and use a single 100w sump heater.

So 600w is what they use. Tanis only has 3 cylinders heated out of 4 and is less wattage.

On a 6 cylinder model rieff turbo it would be 600w for 6 cylinder bands plus 2 100w sumps so 800w continuous.

Yamaha makes great stuff also.

Glad I brought my Honda with me to LGA as I'm parked out in the sticks. Not to cold but with oil at 40 degrees, a quick plug in for 15min and a cup of coffee and 50w oil will be good to go.

Thanks, I must have confused it with the little ceramic cabin heater I was looking at.

[aaronk25]

Ya the ceramic one use alot more, I was surprised when I found out how little power the engine heaters used.

[wiguy]

 I was parked at a MI grass strip last Fall, it was kinda cold at night(<30). I did bring an extension cord but no generator. I was able to borrow one from a relative for a few hours prior to cranking.

 

  I do have a Honda 2000 watt generator at home. I store it with 100LL & run it at least once a year.

[carusoam]

Some ideas about the portable generators...

At least the 100LL is more stable than typical gasoline. Important if you only run a few times per year.

There is no catalytic converter to get gummed up either. The main reason 100LL is not ever used in current autos.

100LL has a higher vapor pressure than typical gasoline. This helps keep it from evaporating while stored in the baggage area.

I am not currently a user of a portable generator, but I watched pricing of these devices over the winter. The Hondas are nice, compact, quiet and low vibration. Other manufacturers are half the price.

I am not recommending the storage of gasoline loosely in the back of an aircraft. I am certainly not recommending the operation of one while flying, unless it is Mcguiver style to save your bacon, when all is lost already.

Best regards,

-a-

[Riq]

After all kinds of preheat devices, and mostly due to fbos not having the capability to preheat, my father and I bought a yamaha 2000.

 

After doing the research, the yamaha is hands down a better unit. (and I was thinking of a lower price unit, but after tons of research, you get what you pay for, and it may not work when you need it most)

 

I just have to see how it smoothly it fits in the baggage door. (My cherokee baggage door is much more user friendly, feels like a cargo door after using the mooney.)

[rdav]

I have a 1500W Champion generator that works well when the temperature isn't terribly cold, but have trouble getting it to run smoothly when it dips below 25 Fahrenheit. If I do want to use it for preheat, I generally bring it home with me the night before and keep it indoors for the next morning.

I also find that it needs to be running and up to equilibrium temperature in order to support the electrical load. Does anyone else have this problem?

[kmyfm20s]

I have a 1500W Champion generator that works well when the temperature isn't terribly cold, but have trouble getting it to run smoothly when it dips below 25 Fahrenheit. If I do want to use it for preheat, I generally bring it home with me the night before and keep it indoors for the next morning.

I also find that it needs to be running and up to equilibrium temperature in order to support the electrical load. Does anyone else have this problem?

Viscous circle of preheating!

[carusoam]

Sounds like an oil type selection may be in order for the generator?

Best regards,

-a-

[Piloto]

I always use one of this. It is portable also but a little bit heavy, but surely works.

 

José

[aaronk25]

I have a 1500W Champion generator that works well when the temperature isn't terribly cold, but have trouble getting it to run smoothly when it dips below 25 Fahrenheit. If I do want to use it for preheat, I generally bring it home with me the night before and keep it indoors for the next morning.

I also find that it needs to be running and up to equilibrium temperature in order to support the electrical load. Does anyone else have this problem?

Honda 2000 starts -30 below F no issues, just run part choke for a few min. Honda and Yamaha are great but at 1k prob pricey.