201 J suitable for a low how pilot ?

[spokewrench]

I am 6 hours into my flight school and already looking at what plane would be suitable for my needs of traveling from Western N.J. to S.W. Florida and recreational flying as well . I know it will be after I get Certified or maybe after , but I really like the Mooneys looks, efficiency and of course the speed ! They just look so much better than the C 172 I am training on , but , is this plane suitable ( with instruction) for a low hour pilot or should I look into something more boring like the c 182 and stay alive LOL !

Thanks for any help on a 46 year old NOOB !

[Marauder]

I am 6 hours into my flight school and already looking at what plane would be suitable for my needs of traveling from Western N.J. to S.W. Florida and recreational flying as well . I know it will be after I get Certified or maybe after , but I really like the Mooneys looks, efficiency and of course the speed ! They just look so much better than the C 172 I am training on , but , is this plane suitable ( with instruction) for a low hour pilot or should I look into something more boring like the c 182 and stay alive LOL !

Thanks for any help on a 46 year old NOOB !

I bought my Mooney with a little more than 90 hours in my log book. Insurance was a bit steep until you log enough hours for your insurance company. The transition from a 172 to a Mooney isn't that difficult but you do want enough instruction (my insurance required 10 hours) to learn the plane. It is faster, has wheels that go up and down and that blue knob in the middle will be different for you.

That said, you should also consider the mission. Going to Florida from NJ (I'm nearby to you) is a nice trip. But if you need to carry a lot with you and cannot afford a Mooney with extra useful load, a different plane may be better suited.

I went the rental route for a bit after my private and got checked out in a whole bunch of different planes. I would recommend doing the same and see what you like. Each plane has its merits and the ideal one for you is the one that you like, not what others tell you should get.

[spokewrench]

Wow Thanks for the quick reply ! I wouldnt be carrying much, as we have a home down there ( not by choice ) and also clothes etc. already there- My wife and kids will fly commercial (she is afraid of small planes ) so it just me and Daphne (our 110 lb Rottie) . I will more than likely rent for a while after getting certified as I want to make sure I get what I really want . Would probably stop for fuel and walk the dog 1/2 way some where in between so, the J model seemed attractive I just heard theyre a litlle tricky to land - What does a factory overhaul from lycoming and installation run for a " J" model ?

Thanks for all the help for my questions -

[Marauder]

Wow Thanks for the quick reply ! I wouldnt be carrying much, as we have a home down there ( not by choice ) and also clothes etc. already there- My wife and kids will fly commercial (she is afraid of small planes ) so it just me and Daphne (our 110 lb Rottie) . I will more than likely rent for a while after getting certified as I want to make sure I get what I really want . Would probably stop for fuel and walk the dog 1/2 way some where in between so, the J model seemed attractive I just heard theyre a litlle tricky to land - What does a factory overhaul from lycoming and installation run for a " J" model ?

Thanks for all the help for my questions -

Sorry to hear about the wife's fear. There is another thread folating around here on a wife's concern about flying. I won't comment on it other than what I said and that I am glad I'm married to someone who loves to fly more than I do. Flying with a pet can be a bit challenging, especially with a dog that big. You will want to make sure she is secured and not bothered by the pressure differential. Taking some short trips locally shouold help assess her ability to fly. I once flew a cat in a crate for my sister-in-law and it howled the whole time. Pretty distracting.

As for any of the Mooneys, good landings are not hard -- if you manage the landing speed carefully and do not try to force it on the runway when it is still trying to fly. If you land too fast and try to get the wheels on the ground, the plane will get into an oscillation that will eventually lead to a prop strike.

As for overhauls, there are different levels of overhauls (another thread is out that discusses this). The bottom line -- it is expensive.

When you are evaluating costs, you need to look at the whole picture. I use a spreadsheet to track all of my fixed operational costs, variable costs and reserves. Fixed costs are things like insurance & hangars, variable are maintenance & annuals and the reserves are monies estimated needed for the future (like an engine rebuild, avionics upgrades, paint, etc.). The good news is that the more more you fly, the cheaper the hourly rate is. The bad news is that the more you fly, the more money it will cost you. When you are assessing the planes you are considering buying, find someone who tracks their costs and see how it fits in your budget. It will influence your decision if you are on a tight budget.

Hope this helps.

[fantom]

As for any of the Mooneys, good landings are not hard --

And hard landings are not good A 201 could be ideal for your mission profile. Do you mind telling us the airport you'll be launching from and flying too? As long as you and Daphne have strong bladders, will see if non stop flights are advisable.

Is a Piper available for your training?

[Alan Fox]

The Mooney is a great two person airplane , If you are real tall , it might not work for you.... It is a lot different than the 172 you are flying , not so much for the gear , but you have to fly 10 to 15 miles ahead of the airplane to be where you want to be in the pattern , It takes a little experience and training to get to that level of profiency , that being said , Full fuel two adults , you can fly at 150 knots indicated 10 to 11 gallons per hour , one stop from Fla to Jersey....when you add the third person , you have to sacrifice fuel , maybe two stops depending on winds..... I transitioned into a J model at about 150 hours tt I felt comfortable , but looking back I was probably not "Really" ready until about 200 to 250 hours...... Insurance will want about 50 hours in retracts , and 25 in type.... They are really fun because of the seating position , and the rod coupled controls , Fits like a sports car ...... I would spend about a week or two on this site to familiarize with the types of planes and charachterestics with the mooneys , to make an informed decision if the Mooney fits your Mission..... They are economical , and that is a big draw for them....

[spokewrench]

And hard landings are not good A 201 could be ideal for your mission profile. Do you mind telling us the airport you'll be launching from and flying too? As long as you and Daphne have strong bladders, will see if non stop flights are advisable.

Is a Piper available for your training?

Solberg airport in N.J. Page field in Fort Myers, Fl .

No Pipers for rent at my training airport but there are many other private airports in close proximity to me that do offer Pipers.

[KSMooniac]

With the right attitude and a good Mooney-savvy instructor it is certainly possible. Count on at least 10 hours of instruction required by insurance, and maybe more solo time after that before carrying pax. Getting 100 hrs in type, and especially getting the instrument rating will dramatically lower the insurance costs. Keep in mind that the difference in insurance cost between year one and year two (assuming 100 hrs + IR) will be dramatically less than the cost of renting complex airplanes for 100 hours, so go for the Mooney + good instructor.

Mooneys are not hard to fly or land, but demand more precision than a 172, that is all.

[Joe Zuffoletto]

I started flying 201's in my flying club when I had about 90 hours total time. Loved the looks and speed, and they were more available to rent on a moment's notice than the 172's.

I never found it difficult to fly or land Mooneys, as long as you get good instruction and fly by the numbers.

[fantom]

Good news - it's about 915 NM from N51 to KFMY, as the crow flies, so you'll have to stop once in that 201 to stretch your legs, have a bit to eat, check the WX, give the dog a run, use the restroom, and top off the tanks.

You'll be hearing from more folks here who've moved up to a Mooney with very little flying time. Very doable!

[scottfromiowa]

You have SIX HOURS Total time and you want to buy a Mooney? DON'T DO IT. Get your private pilots license. THEN go fly a Cherokee and see if you like low wing aircraft. THEN get checked off for solo retract aircraft. Then build up to about 100 hours THEN if you still love to fly...all the while reading books about aircraft ownership and costs...go fly a Mooney. I LOVE your excitement, but at six hours you need to "tap the brakes". You will be a better, safer, smarter pilot and owner for the exercise. Good luck obtaining your PPL. Give your pup an ear scratch for me.

[gregwatts]

For my 2 cents.......traveling that kind of distance, you should really consider getting the instrument rating as soon as possible. I would suggest getting the PPL first.....then renting or buying your Mooney to get the IR......before you start taking those missions. The IR will be helpful in so many ways once you start migrating.

My opinion only!

[WardHolbrook]

Can guys learn to fly in complex airplanes? Of course, one of my CFI buddies has a couple of primary students learning how to fly in their rich daddy's DA-42 Twinstar. They're actually OK I hear. In years past, actor Danny Kay learned to fly in a Beech Queen Air (twin-engine) and military students have been doing it for decades. But, just because you can, doesn't mean you should. Without knowing you and your "abilities" as a student, my fist inclination would be to get you license in what you're flying now, then take another pass at this question with the input of an honest assessment of your CFI and after having a heart to heart with an aircraft insurance guy. All that being said, I've trained a few primary students in C182s and it was no big deal. A constant speed prop doesn't add a lot of complexity to the equation and was quite easily handled by my students. Again, discuss the possibility with your CFI.

[Alan Fox]

You have SIX HOURS Total time and you want to buy a Mooney? DON'T DO IT. Get your private pilots license. THEN go fly a Cherokee and see if you like low wing aircraft. THEN get checked off for solo retract aircraft. Then build up to about 100 hours THEN if you still love to fly...all the while reading books about aircraft ownership and costs...go fly a Mooney. I LOVE your excitement, but at six hours you need to "tap the brakes". You will be a better, safer, smarter pilot and owner for the exercise. Good luck obtaining your PPL. Give your pup an ear scratch for me.

Scott I figure about 150 to 200 hours to be 1) profiecient as a pilot , 2) experienced enough to make a no go decision #2 being the most important , as this is usually a decision that results in disaster for the inexperienced aviator..

[John Pleisse]

You can only judge your commitment, both financially and educationally. Three things:

1) The 201 really is the best "all-around" airplane

2) It has a safety record that has historically been exceptional

3) You can learn your primary skills, commercial skills and most importantly, the 201 is an exceptional instrument platform. Then go flight it around the country.

Go for it! Be a good owner and take good care of it.

[carusoam]

Welcome to flying Mooneys in NJ. We have an MSC here and they often rent Mooneys. We also have Mooney specific training available here when you are ready.

Learn the search function quickly. There are so many topics initiated/covered by people asking similar questions that you may have. They may have started with the same experience that you currently have.

Expect all answers to have a bias, but the recomendations are from the heart.

Search for topics like where are you flying this weekend, or holiday travel. Look up the nj mooney web site, one of our members here hosts it.

Welcome aboard.

Best regards,

-a-

[spokewrench]

You have SIX HOURS Total time and you want to buy a Mooney? DON'T DO IT. Get your private pilots license. THEN go fly a Cherokee and see if you like low wing aircraft. THEN get checked off for solo retract aircraft. Then build up to about 100 hours THEN if you still love to fly...all the while reading books about aircraft ownership and costs...go fly a Mooney. I LOVE your excitement, but at six hours you need to "tap the brakes". You will be a better, safer, smarter pilot and owner for the exercise. Good luck obtaining your PPL. Give your pup an ear scratch for me.

No not yet LOL! Im still getting used to the stall feeling ! Maybe in a year or so, just thought it might fill my use, but definately do not want to run the gun, I will wait to get my PPL and then probably rent until I find a good Mooney and then seek training for it, just wanted to see if it was even a possibilty for a low hour pilot - Thanks to all that posted and all the encouragement ! And for answering all my noobie questions ! Yea she is a sweet dog "lot of bad press for the Rotties" She plays with our 3 year old everyday and they are best friends , and boy does she protect that little boy as her own ! I will give her a ear scratch for sure !

[jetdriven]

What does a factory overhaul from lycoming and installation run for a " J" model ?

a Lycoming factory OH is 28K on the pallet, and figure another 8-10K for "laid in". Add 3-4K more for a factory reman engine, the only difference near as I can tell is another year of waranty (2 years total), and a zero time logbook. Its still a mix of used and new parts.

[Cabanaboy]

This is often asked here, I wondered the same thing while training. I feel it is best get your private first, get a few hours in a high performance retractable for insurance, then buy. I took one 3 hour flight in Bonanza, then bought the Mooney. You can do it, but you will be better off doing the aforementioned.

[WardHolbrook]

Scott I figure about 150 to 200 hours to be 1) proficient as a pilot , 2) experienced enough to make a no go decision #2 being the most important , as this is usually a decision that results in disaster for the inexperienced aviator..

No argument with any of the above, however the limitations and conditions that the insurance company would probably set on the guy would take care of all of those concerns. They'll write the policy and set the conditions and they would be pretty strict and the policy wouldn't be cheap. I could easily foresee PVT w/IR and 150 hours TT including 100+ hours dual before they let him do anything other than supervised solos. In other words, it's not going to be practical to do.

[jetdriven]

Our lowest time partner had 110 hours TT and no IR, not even any complex time. Zero. Starr insurnace premium right now is competitive, ours was 2300$ first year with 80K hull, and he had to have 25 dual and 25 solo beofre carrying passengers. He did fine but he has good ability and a profesional attitude about learning. That matters more than anything.

He later rented an arrow for an hour. He won't rent it again, he mentioned something about it being 15 knots slower, crappier, and the controls (cables and pulleys) have so much slop you turn the wheel and light a cigarette before it began to turn.

[Hank]

I bought my Mooney, a C not a J, with 62 hours. Insurance required 15 hours dual; some insurance companies wanted up to 20 hours dual then 10 more solo before carrying passengers. Shop around for rates, too. This was in 2007.

Parker may have recent info, it's his profession. Or his 'other' profession besides Flight Instruction.

My suggestion: concentrate on your PPL first. Fly several planes. Shop for a plane in your spare time. Get your Complex Endorsement before you buy a complex plane, and try to get 100 hours in your logbook but don't miss a good deal just because of low flight time.

After you buy, study everything you can find. Take type-specific training. Fly at least 100 hours during the already expensive first year insurance; my second year cost half of the first. Discuss this with your agent as the aircraft market has been changing the last couple of years. And of course the Mooney is great for Instrument flying, but they fly very well VFR as long as you stay flexible. In 2years, I only canceled a few flights, diverted three times and had to land short and drive home once.

[HopePilot]

I don't think I had many more hours than that when I decided I would fly a Mooney one day. I remember being at KWHP, seeing one taxi by, and asking what it was. It was a long road though. I decided I would wait until I got my instrument rating, and that's exactly what I did. I knew I would be better off if I learned to fly with precision and had the capability to use the plane for its mission. Next, I found a Mooney C model to take some lessons in. This was extremely helpful in making the transition from the Cessna 172 to the 201. I'm glad I didn't botch those first few Mooney landings in my own plane. By the time I took delivery of the 201 I already had the feel for it from the C model. If you set your mind to it, you can accomplish your goal, but don't take any shortcuts. Their aren't any reset buttons in real life.

[jetdriven]

Landing a Mooney is rather difficutl the first few times for Cessna pilots. If you dont come over the threshold with the proper airspeed (hint...it begins with a 7) hold hear some stall horn and hold that nose wheel off until 40 knots or so, then keep at it it until you do. It can be done, but not as forgiving for a low-time-in-type pilot. Blame the instructors. Many of them don't do it that way either.

[Marauder]

Landing a Mooney is rather difficutl the first few times for Cessna pilots. If you dont come over the threshold with the proper airspeed (hint...it begins with a 7) hold hear some stall horn and hold that nose wheel off until 40 knots or so, then keep at it it until you do. It can be done, but not as forgiving for a low-time-in-type pilot. Blame the instructors. Many of them don't do it that way either.

After you nail the airspeed part (78 mph is what I shoot for, others may disagree), the feel is different in that you are lower to the ground in the Mooney than a Cessan 172. After a while, it feels natural and you know when it is not right.