Will.iam Posted January 10 Report Posted January 10 T-37 was notorious for punishing you if you did not follow the correct sequence with quick motions to get out of a spin. Even if you did the correct sequence and were timid or slow on the elevator control it would reward you with a super tight wrapped up spin. Only took once to experience and then it was elevator slam that control stick like you were punching out the instrument panel to reward you with breaking out of the spin. Theory was if you can recover out of a t-37 spin no other aircraft in the inventory was as bad to get out of the spin than that one. 2
Yetti Posted January 10 Report Posted January 10 On 1/9/2026 at 8:16 AM, cliffy said: I had a conversation with Bill Wheat (RIP) THE GURU of Mooney flight testing while in Kerrville many years ago. We touched on spins in Mooneys in that conversation. He stated that he once (while doing spin testing for Mooney) had one stay locked in the spin for 5 (FIVE) full rotations He said he almost didn't get out of it and NEVER wanted to do it again. So, DON'T INTENTIONALLY SPIN MOONEYS !! Enough said! The bigger question is if the rumored 300mph dive is true or just one of those Kerrville wives tales.
Will.iam Posted January 10 Report Posted January 10 I thought testing for certification requires an aircraft to go 150% above redline and exhibit, no adverse flight characteristics , i.e. flutter. So 150% of 196 kias would be passed 300mph to pass that cert.
flyboy0681 Posted January 12 Report Posted January 12 On 1/10/2026 at 7:44 AM, LANCECASPER said: Looks like I remembered his story quite well. 2
midlifeflyer Posted January 12 Report Posted January 12 1 hour ago, flyboy0681 said: Looks like I remembered his story quite well. I think I may have not been a participant here back then. Depending on definition, I would have needed an "almost" choice. It was the first flight of transition training for a new Mooney pilot. J model. Run of the mill power-off stall. I took control and recovered in less than a half turn.
N201MKTurbo Posted January 12 Report Posted January 12 I said the guy who bought my old Cessna was going to spin it, here it is for your spinning pleasure! 1
Ragsf15e Posted January 12 Report Posted January 12 49 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said: I said the guy who bought my old Cessna was going to spin it, here it is for your spinning pleasure! It only loaded a picture, i want the video!!
N201MKTurbo Posted January 12 Report Posted January 12 26 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said: It only loaded a picture, i want the video!! It is a GIF. It works on my IPad. I will look at my computer. It works on my PC too.
Fly Boomer Posted January 12 Report Posted January 12 2 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said: It is a GIF. It works on my IPad. I will look at my computer. Works okay on PC with Chrome.
Ragsf15e Posted January 12 Report Posted January 12 10 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said: It is a GIF. It works on my IPad. I will look at my computer. It works on my PC too. Ok ill try it there because i want to see!
Ragsf15e Posted January 12 Report Posted January 12 10 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said: It is a GIF. It works on my IPad. I will look at my computer. It works on my PC too. Ok ill try it there because i want to see!
Hank Posted January 12 Report Posted January 12 30 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said: Ok ill try it there because i want to see! It works fine on my Samsung phone, too. Not quite enough turns to make me dizzy at home.
Ragsf15e Posted January 12 Report Posted January 12 3 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said: I said the guy who bought my old Cessna was going to spin it, here it is for your spinning pleasure! Hmm, works on my computer but Iphoney didn't like it. Here are my thoughts... 1. Is that shag carpet on the glareshield? 2. It went very nearly inverted during the "incipient" portion before stabilizing in a nice nose low spin. I think the Mooney is likely to do similar and be eye opening. 3. Did he have the power full/80% to start? I see the rpm drop off when he goes to recover, but it starts at ~2300 rpm. Not sure if that's ok or not? Other airplanes I've flown required us to be in idle before spinning to avoid excessive stress on the engine. 1
N201MKTurbo Posted January 12 Report Posted January 12 13 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said: Hmm, works on my computer but Iphoney didn't like it. Here are my thoughts... 1. Is that shag carpet on the glareshield? 2. It went very nearly inverted during the "incipient" portion before stabilizing in a nice nose low spin. I think the Mooney is likely to do similar and be eye opening. 3. Did he have the power full/80% to start? I see the rpm drop off when he goes to recover, but it starts at ~2300 rpm. Not sure if that's ok or not? Other airplanes I've flown required us to be in idle before spinning to avoid excessive stress on the engine. I wasn’t there. All I know is the video. I did text him a bit, he said they were having a hard time getting it into a spin. I think it was a power on stall with full crossed controls. He said as soon as they released back pressure, it would recover. 1
LANCECASPER Posted January 12 Report Posted January 12 28 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said: Is that shag carpet on the glareshield? Part 91 allows the nap on shag carpet to be used as a back up attitude indicator if the primary fails . . . lol 2
Schllc Posted January 13 Report Posted January 13 Maybe I am missing something, but why would one go out and practice stalling the aircraft? I have done a lot of this in training, and in check rides, but after that I have never practiced this maneuver. What is the purpose of practicing something that you are never supposed to allow to happen? Is it simply for you to be aware of what it feels like so you know what’s happening in the event it occurs? I can honestly say I have never, short of a messy landing, ever even come close to a stall in all the years I have been flying. additional note, I doubt coordinated stalls are what kills anyone. it’s likely it happens while turning in landing configuration. I have never practiced this maneuver, nor has anyone ever discussed practicing during training.
N201MKTurbo Posted January 13 Report Posted January 13 58 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said: Part 91 allows the nap on shag carpet to be used as a back up attitude indicator if the primary fails . . . lol Hay, it came with the plane. What do you expect for a $13 AMU airplane. I think it needs a hula girl. 1
LANCECASPER Posted January 13 Report Posted January 13 Just now, N201MKTurbo said: Hay, it came with the plane. What do you expect for a $13 AMU airplane. I think it needs a hula girl. I remember . . . . . that's the one I asked if I could buy when you were ready to sell it for my nephew to train in.
Justin Schmidt Posted January 13 Report Posted January 13 1 hour ago, Ragsf15e said: nearly inverted during the "incipient" Mine was very near it when it happened. Wish i would have saved the GP data before switching to FF. It was a ride for sure.
N201MKTurbo Posted January 13 Report Posted January 13 24 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said: I remember . . . . . that's the one I asked if I could buy when you were ready to sell it for my nephew to train in. Oops, sorry I forgot. I would have totally let you make an offer for it.
Ragsf15e Posted January 13 Report Posted January 13 1 hour ago, Schllc said: Maybe I am missing something, but why would one go out and practice stalling the aircraft? I have done a lot of this in training, and in check rides, but after that I have never practiced this maneuver. What is the purpose of practicing something that you are never supposed to allow to happen? Is it simply for you to be aware of what it feels like so you know what’s happening in the event it occurs? I can honestly say I have never, short of a messy landing, ever even come close to a stall in all the years I have been flying. additional note, I doubt coordinated stalls are what kills anyone. it’s likely it happens while turning in landing configuration. I have never practiced this maneuver, nor has anyone ever discussed practicing during training. I go out and practice stalls in all different configurations and attitudes maybe once every other month. Yes, i do turning configered stalls as part of that. While you should never get there unexpectedly, I believe it makes you recognize what’s happening quicker and drills the recovery into subconscious so it doesn’t require thinking about it. I guess I just think doing it once in a while will make you a better stick and rudder pilot which doesn’t hurt any of us. I would say (and this might not apply to you), that anyone a little nervous about doing stalls by themselves should fly with an instructor with the goal of building their confidence enough to do it alone and unafraid from now on. I volunteer to sit right seat for anyone who needs that and wants to come to Spokane. 4
Ragsf15e Posted January 13 Report Posted January 13 1 hour ago, Justin Schmidt said: Mine was very near it when it happened. Wish i would have saved the GP data before switching to FF. It was a ride for sure. Yes, when I did it, it was also pretty close. It also accelerated rapidly during the recovery (in idle) because the nose was pointed very nearly straight down.
Schllc Posted January 13 Report Posted January 13 5 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said: I go out and practice stalls in all different configurations and attitudes maybe once every other month. Yes, i do turning configered stalls as part of that. While you should never get there unexpectedly, I believe it makes you recognize what’s happening quicker and drills the recovery into subconscious so it doesn’t require thinking about it. I guess I just think doing it once in a while will make you a better stick and rudder pilot which doesn’t hurt any of us. I would say (and this might not apply to you), that anyone a little nervous about doing stalls by themselves should fly with an instructor with the goal of building their confidence enough to do it alone and unafraid from now on. I volunteer to sit right seat for anyone who needs that and wants to come to Spokane. Did you guys practice this stuff regularly in the military? I understand what you are saying, that proficiency is the purpose. I don’t have a lot of tailwheel, maybe 50 hours, and ground/near ground aka slow control is a pretty big deal, but otherwise it flew like anything else. I’m picturing a scenario where I would get slow and uncoordinated to the point I would stall, much less spin. I’m seeing something strange on takeoff or short final so no room for a spin but a stall.. even the 172 wasn’t able to be inadvertently spun, you had to make it stall or spin. I bet the big iron you guys flew isn’t as docile… im not skeptical, I suppose I haven’t experienced the event that makes you “get it”, like a good icing encounter. I will discuss at my next IPC
dkkim73 Posted January 13 Report Posted January 13 2 hours ago, Schllc said: Maybe I am missing something, but why would one go out and practice stalling the aircraft? Maybe you misspoke (uncoordinated stalls?), but I think stall practice every so often is valuable to remembering what that portion of the envelope feels like. And practicing maintaining coordination near the stall. If I get rusty, stalls and MCA are one of those things I go out and do prior to landing refreshers. Simulated landings at altitude occasionally pushed into a stall. 1
Ragsf15e Posted January 13 Report Posted January 13 28 minutes ago, Schllc said: Did you guys practice this stuff regularly in the military? I understand what you are saying, that proficiency is the purpose. I don’t have a lot of tailwheel, maybe 50 hours, and ground/near ground aka slow control is a pretty big deal, but otherwise it flew like anything else. I’m picturing a scenario where I would get slow and uncoordinated to the point I would stall, much less spin. I’m seeing something strange on takeoff or short final so no room for a spin but a stall.. even the 172 wasn’t able to be inadvertently spun, you had to make it stall or spin. I bet the big iron you guys flew isn’t as docile… im not skeptical, I suppose I haven’t experienced the event that makes you “get it”, like a good icing encounter. I will discuss at my next IPC We did practice that kind of stuff a lot in the T-6, but it’s also what we were teaching our students, so were we practicing to be more proficient or to teach it better? Maybe hard to separate. As you say, you never intend to get slow/turning/configured/etc but it can definitely happen unexpectedly and that’s why I think it’s worth practicing. Say for example you are on downwind abeam the numbers and drop gear/TO flaps and the controller asks you for a right 360 to deconflict with traffic on final. I wouldn’t intend to get slow and near stall, but there’s a lot going on with the airplane, traffic and communication. You could unintentionally end up leaving the throttle back and trying to make a level 360. Just to be clear though, I don’t go practice uncoordinated stalls or incipient spins. I did it a couple times at high altitude to see what it would look like. I do practice taking coordinated stalls to both a good buffet and to a break though.
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