Dick Denenny Posted October 18 Report Posted October 18 I know this is a common thread but I thought I'd still throw it out to get some help. I need to sell my 1966 M20E. Lost my medical along with some other problems. I see prices all over the place right now. Some asking around $140k for what I have and then looking at brokers like GMax has one at $100k. Where are we at? I'll list all the specifics later but just looking for general input right now. Dick
toto Posted October 18 Report Posted October 18 Jimmy Garrison produces some nice Mooney valuation guides. You might ping @jgarrison for the latest.
mike_elliott Posted October 18 Report Posted October 18 What would you buy it for today. Answer honestly. That’s what it’s worth
VWGuy Posted October 18 Report Posted October 18 IMHO The value of anything is worth nothing! It is only worth what a buyer & seller can agree on.
DCarlton Posted October 18 Report Posted October 18 I'm no expert but I think it has much more to do with condition and flight readiness now. Engine overhauls, avionics upgrades and paint all have very long lead times. Any one of those can cost half the value of a '60s Mooney and take 5-6 months. If you've got a mint plane that's ready to fly, and you can prove it, I'll bet it'll sell for a premium. If you've got a project, a run out engine or old avionics, I'm guessing it'll sit a long time before it sells regardless of the price. If you want it gone quickly, you'll have to price it way below the valuation guide. There are a lot of planes on the market that have been for sale by brokers for a couple of years. This is why I keep asking about the real value of a good parts airplane but no-one seems to want to discuss that. What's the bottom. What's the value of a ready to fly for a long time airplane vs one that's run out. Really curious if yours has the manual gear; perhaps another significant factor. Folks are paranoid about the cost and availability of gear actuators now. E's are cool airplanes. 1
1980Mooney Posted October 18 Report Posted October 18 11 hours ago, Dick Denenny said: I know this is a common thread but I thought I'd still throw it out to get some help. I need to sell my 1966 M20E. Lost my medical along with some other problems. I see prices all over the place right now. Some asking around $140k for what I have and then looking at brokers like GMax has one at $100k. Where are we at? If GMax has one similar to yours and is asking $100K, then that is probably the high side valuation. There was a M20E (Serial No. 690) with speed mods and new looking paint recently at IndyAir listed for $49K. (see below). It just sold. That is probably the low side valuation. Also did you see this topic from August Mooney M20E - N5668Q - Aircraft For Sale - Indy Air Sales 2
Dick Denenny Posted October 20 Author Report Posted October 20 PLANE FOR SALE INFORMATION N2569W M20E SER # 930 TOTAL TIME 4200 ENGINE; NEW ENGINE 2023 TIME: 50 ENGINE REBUILT BY WESTERN SKYWAYS; MONTROSE CO GOLD SEAL ENGINE REBUILT “ZERO HOURS” ALL NEW HOSES NEW BAFFLES NEW SUREFLY ELECTRONIC IGNITION REBUILT MAGNITO NEW SKYTECH STARTER NEW VACUUM PUMP RAYJAY TURBOCHARGER REBUILT IN 2023; MAIN TURBO; NEW WASTE GATE; COMPLIED V CLAMP NEW OIL COOLER REIFF ENGINE HEATER PROP STRIKE 2024 ENGINE REBUILT AGAIN WESTERN SKYWAYS TEARDOWN PROPELLER: NEW; HC-C2YK-1BF HARTZELL INSTRUMENTS; STANDARD SIX PACK WITH GARMIN 430 NO GLASS PANEL EXTRAS: SHADEN FUEL FLOW: VERY ACCURATE WILL GIVE JPI 700 THAT I NEVER INSTALLED UAVIANICS TAIL BEACON ADSB OUT SENTRY PLUS FOR FORFLIGHT PUSH TO TALK ON YOLK ALL PC REMOVED APPEARANCE: EXTERIOR IS IN GOOD SHAPE CLEAN AND SHARPE PROBABLY 7 OUT OF 10 INTERIOR; NICE ORIGINAL; PROBABLY A 7 OUT OF 10
Aaviationist Posted October 20 Report Posted October 20 Anyone can list anything for any price. You said you saw it listed for 140, but has anyone bought it?
Vance Harral Posted October 20 Report Posted October 20 While it's true anyone can list anything for any price, this is only a research problem for one-off rarities, and an M20E isn't that kind of airplane. There are no less than 14 of them for sale on Trade-a-Plane right now, and that's only one for-sale site. I don't really get these, "What's it worth" posts, and always wonder if it's a shill for something other than an actual sale. Determining value for anything of which there are a dozen or more posted seems trivial to me. Look at the ads for airworthy airplanes (in annual, flown recently, etc, all easy to determine). Discard the highest one or two as "of course it's for sale" foolishness; discard the lowest one or two as outliers that are likely hiding a surprise; that's still going to leave you with lots of samples. Make some rational adjustments for year model/TTAF/avionics/paint/interior compared to your airplane (doing so is not difficult - engine time on an IO-360 is worth about $30/hour, all the other stuff is worth about half the retail price). Find the average, price yours slightly high or slightly low in accordance with your personal preference on dollars vs. time to sell. Our partnership goes through this exercise every year for insurance valuation. I just did it this weekend: our M20F with decent avionics, decent interior, bad paint, and a runout engine is worth about $80K. The work takes about an hour, maybe two if I search really hard across multiple sites. The answers you get are significantly more useful than asking a bunch of randos on the internet who aren't actually selling their airplanes. This is all Jimmy and other brokers are doing to produce their valuation guides. To be fair, those folks are analyzing all makes & models rather than just one. But they're also not publishing new data every month, at least not in a manner you can subscribe to. Better to do your own market research, and it's just not that hard. 3
Pinecone Posted October 20 Report Posted October 20 9 hours ago, Dick Denenny said: PLANE FOR SALE INFORMATION N2569W M20E SER # 930 TOTAL TIME 4200 ENGINE; NEW ENGINE 2023 TIME: 50 ENGINE REBUILT BY WESTERN SKYWAYS; MONTROSE CO GOLD SEAL ENGINE FACTORY REBUILT “ZERO HOURS” ALL NEW HOSES NEW BAFFLES NEW SUREFLY ELECTRONIC IGNITION REBUILT MAGNITO NEW SKYTECH STARTER NEW VACUUM PUMP RAYJAY TURBOCHARGER REBUILT IN 2023; MAIN TURBO; NEW WASTE GATE; COMPLIED V CLAMP NEW OIL COOLER REIFF ENGINE HEATER PROP STRIKE 2024 ENGINE REBUILT AGAIN WESTERN SKYWAYS TEARDOWN PROPELLER: NEW; HC-C2YK-1BF HARTZELL The engine can't be overhauled by Western Skyways and be Zero Time. Only the factory can Zero Time an engine. Or did you put in a Zero Time Factory Reman and then had the prop strike that Western Skyways did the IRAN? Well, technically the could designate a shop to do so, but they don't. 1
Ragsf15e Posted October 20 Report Posted October 20 On 10/17/2025 at 10:20 PM, Dick Denenny said: I know this is a common thread but I thought I'd still throw it out to get some help. I need to sell my 1966 M20E. Lost my medical along with some other problems. I see prices all over the place right now. Some asking around $140k for what I have and then looking at brokers like GMax has one at $100k. Where are we at? I'll list all the specifics later but just looking for general input right now. Dick Dick, I’d recommend posting that in the “Aircfraft Classified” section further down. It will get its own thread and that’s where people will look. Additionally, you might want to get someone to look through the ad with you, there are a few errors highlighted about the engine being factory new versus overhaul that will detract from your ad. As pinecone stated it is not factory new. But the overhaul from Western skyways is still valuable.
TangoTango Posted October 20 Report Posted October 20 5 hours ago, Vance Harral said: Make some rational adjustments for year model/TTAF/avionics/paint/interior compared to your airplane (doing so is not difficult - engine time on an IO-360 is worth about $3/hour, all the other stuff is worth about half the retail price). I suspect you value engine time at $30/hour unless you have a budget overhaul shop to recommend 1 1
Vance Harral Posted October 20 Report Posted October 20 1 hour ago, TangoTango said: I suspect you value engine time at $30/hour unless you have a budget overhaul shop to recommend Correct, apologies for the typo. I edited the original message.
201Steve Posted October 21 Report Posted October 21 $140k seems very high for a basically original bird that only has the engine in the “plus” column. I think the market for people wanting to fly an original steam six pack is only getting smaller with each passing day for a swarm of reasons.
exM20K Posted October 21 Report Posted October 21 On 10/18/2025 at 7:43 AM, mike_elliott said: What would you buy it for today. Answer honestly. That’s what it’s worth That is what it is worth to "you," but "you" are well-informed about maintenance history, unresolved issues, etc. "Other" buyer will (or should) bake a risk premium into the deal for unknown/undiscovered squawks. -dan
1980Mooney Posted October 21 Report Posted October 21 (edited) From the picture on Flightaware, it looks like it has a 201 windshield speed mod. That is a plus you should mention. There is a 1966 M20C on Controller with basically the same panel, the 201 windshield, recently recovered interior 8/10, exterior 7/10, the same Rayjay turbo and has 1,642 hours on the engine. 1,602 hrs since Prop OH. New shock discs. They are asking $75,900. Using @Vance Harral $30/hr metric, your fresh engine might command $48,000 premium. Would someone pay $124,000? As a point of comparison there is a 1979 M20K on Controller with 1,222 hrs on the engine with 105 hrs since top overhaul. 134 hr since Prop OH. It has Avidyne 540 and an Aspen but the autopilot is INOP. The exterior is clamed a little worse at 6 and interior at 5. They are asking $115,000. I am with @201Steve - someone looking for a simple plane without an autopilot, with just a 6-pack plus 430 probably is likely just looking for a VFR daytime fun plane. Likely they will not plane to fly a lot. I believe they would desire a lower priced midtime engine that they can fly and will last for quite a while - likely longer than they will ever need or want it. Therefore that buyer may not place much value on the low time engine. I bet that type of buyer is looking for something below $100,000....well below. Edited October 21 by 1980Mooney 1
mike_elliott Posted October 21 Report Posted October 21 7 hours ago, exM20K said: That is what it is worth to "you," but "you" are well-informed about maintenance history, unresolved issues, etc. "Other" buyer will (or should) bake a risk premium into the deal for unknown/undiscovered squawks. -dan If you don’t bake the unknown/undisclosed issues into your self assessment of its value you are not being honest with yourself for example. If it hasn’t had the tanks resealed in 20 year but no leaks now, well you know they will happen and probably soon so you should discount what you think it’s worth accordingly
Vance Harral Posted October 21 Report Posted October 21 6 hours ago, 1980Mooney said: Using @Vance Harral $30/hr metric, your fresh engine might command $48,000 premium. Would someone pay $124,000? One of the interesting things about dollars-per-hour metrics on engines is they flatten out at the ends of the spectrum. It costs $50-$60K today to overhaul an IO-360 (meaning an "all in" price including R&R, the typical replacement of fuel and oil lines, other stuff that happens while you're in there). But an airplane whose engine has less than 100 hours since overhaul generally won't command $60K of engine value even if you cut the number back by "immediate" depreciation. This is due to legitimate trepidation about infant mortality, and the fact that a lot of very-low-time engines are attached to airplanes that haven't flown much recently (such appears to be the case with the OP, only 50 hours in the last 2+ years). Similarly, a "runout" engine isn't worth $60K less than one with a fresh overhaul because any engine that's actually attached to the airframe and still developing power has some residual value despite being "runout". If you don't believe this at first, imagine making an offer on an airplane with a runout engine and being told last minute that the seller has removed the operating engine and will give you a core that's serviceable for overhaul instead, for the same sales price. Anyway, the point remains that while the curve flattens out at the end of the spectrum, $25-30 per engine hour is still a pretty good value adjustment for the significant majority of airplanes whose engines are in the middle of the use curve. No one knows when any given engine might need an overhaul, of course. But the subject here is sales value, not how much money you might have to have in the bank by what date when the engine starts talking to you. Those are, unfortunately, two largely independent topics. 1
MikeOH Posted October 21 Report Posted October 21 Gee, I so love these 'how much is my plane worth' threads <sarcasm> Honestly, @Vance Harral gave you the best answer a few posts back. Sure, it's a little work but looking at ads and how long they 'hang around' is going to give you a pretty good where to start. Another approach is to call IndyAir for a quick 'rock bottom' price and add 15-20% and try for that. Coming to the 'Internet Experts' just results in a price based on: 1) Engine: Fresh OH $40K, because of infant mortality it needs to be discounted $20K, Run-out: $0, 'cause you may need to spend $60K next week, 500-1500 hours: $20/hour left since the buyer deserves a discount from the actual $30/hour! 2) Avionics: Latest & greatest: 50 cents on the dollar, Old 430WAAS: $3K, Anything less: $0 3) Airframe: Pre-2000: $0 since it's an antique, naturally. So, for a 1966 E with a fresh OH and a GNS430W = $44K, $40K if the GNS is not WAAS. Yes, I'm joking, but that's about how people seem to discuss "what's it worth" questions.
Dick Denenny Posted October 22 Author Report Posted October 22 Thanks to all that responded to my thread. I got exactly what I thought I would from this forum. Got nice helpful comments that I could use to try to price my plane accordingly to beligerent demeaning posts that wanted to make me feel bad for asking for any input. Telling me how out of base I was to try to figure the value of a new engine and basically rebuilt plane with old instruments. Funny how people react to a post so differently.
Jackk Posted October 22 Report Posted October 22 On 10/21/2025 at 5:05 AM, 201Steve said: $140k seems very high for a basically original bird that only has the engine in the “plus” column. I think the market for people wanting to fly an original steam six pack is only getting smaller with each passing day for a swarm of reasons. Such as? I’m agnostic on glass vs steam, wing position, etc, if it’s got WAAS and ILS abilities, good auto pilot, glass or six pack doesn’t make a difference as long as it’s in good order (free from bad vac gyros or Aspen red Xs) It really is the same display 1
DCarlton Posted October 22 Report Posted October 22 3 minutes ago, Jackk said: Such as? I’m agnostic on glass vs steam, wing position, etc, if it’s got WAAS and ILS abilities, good auto pilot, glass or six pack doesn’t make a difference as long as it’s in good order (free from bad vac gyros or Aspen red Xs) It really is the same display I prefer a smart combination of steam and glass but I'm older. But yep, most importantly I want everything working reliably. I would agree though, the population of folks that prefer some steam is diminishing. 2
201Steve Posted October 22 Report Posted October 22 4 hours ago, Jackk said: Such as? Probably get a better answer from the design teams of every single manufacturer building new airplanes today or any avionics shop in the country. When’s the last time you heard of someone going into avionics to have there glass panel ripped out for a steam gauge replacement?
Jackk Posted October 22 Report Posted October 22 15 minutes ago, 201Steve said: Probably get a better answer from the design teams of every single manufacturer building new airplanes today or any avionics shop in the country. When’s the last time you heard of someone going into avionics to have there glass panel ripped out for a steam gauge replacement? Know a few who dumped red X aspens for G5s / 275s 1
DCarlton Posted October 22 Report Posted October 22 18 minutes ago, 201Steve said: Probably get a better answer from the design teams of every single manufacturer building new airplanes today or any avionics shop in the country. When’s the last time you heard of someone going into avionics to have there glass panel ripped out for a steam gauge replacement? I did consider smashing my glass into the smallest pieces possible after a software update turned it into a brick. Didn't do it though. Sent it back to the manufacturer to bring back from the dead while gritting teeth. Never thought about doing that with a "steam" gage. 3
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