252 > 262 Conversion

[ChazAtCaz]

While this isn't a new topic here, I'm interested if anyone can weigh in on whether the STC for the 252 to 262 conversion is still open & valid. And if so, who does those conversions? I have an '87 252TSE. 

[Ragsf15e]

22 minutes ago, ChazAtCaz said:

While this isn't a new topic here, I'm interested if anyone can weigh in on whether the STC for the 252 to 262 conversion is still open & valid. And if so, who does those conversions? I have an '87 252TSE. 

I just bought a 252 with the Encore conversion. It was converted in 2021 at Don Maxwell  in TX.  There are some parts that are hard to get for the conversion, but it’s possible.  I’d call Don and see.

[Fritz1]

To my best recollection this STC was held by modworks in punta Gorda and they were wiped out by a hurricane in the early 2000s, STC stuck somewhere in a bankruptcy unless somebody extracted it, somebody more knowledgeable will chime in

[ta2too]

56 minutes ago, ChazAtCaz said:

While this isn't a new topic here, I'm interested if anyone can weigh in on whether the STC for the 252 to 262 conversion is still open & valid. And if so, who does those conversions? I have an '87 252TSE. 

Hi Chaz,

   Welcome to MS. Hang around and you will learn a lot.

To answer your question, a 262 conversion is an upgrade for a 231 to hang a TSIO-360-MB on it, among other things to somewhat convert it to 252 specs. There are still differences, but the main part of the conversion is the engine. I see you are already there. The upgrade available for your plane, already a 252, is an Encore upgrade which uses the TSIO-360-SB engine, as well as a gross weight increase.

[ChazAtCaz]

What I'm most interested in is the TKS / FIKI addition. I was under the impression that that was the 252 > 262 STC, based on what I've seen online, videos, etc. Is there another STC that handles the TKS. And again, same question, who does that mod?

Edited Thursday at 05:06 PM by ChazAtCaz

[exM20K]

13 minutes ago, ChazAtCaz said:

What I'm most interested in is the TKS / FIKI addition. I was under the impression that that was the 252 > 262 STC, based on what I've seen online, videos, etc. Is there another STC that handles the TKS. And again, same question, who does that mod?

As noted above, the 262 was an STC to hang a 252 motor (TSIO360MB) in place of the 231's original (TSIO360GB/LB). It is ineligible for FIKI because it has a 14V electrical system.

The 252 is eligible for FIKI, as it has a 28V system.

The 252 is upgradable to the Encore configuration, which boots useful load significantly.  Useful load is the hole in the 252's game.

-dan

[ChazAtCaz]

Right, I knew about useful load. Any idea what the weight add is with the TKS addition? 

Also, well aware of Don "Mooney" Maxwell, in TX. He's the man...

Edited Thursday at 05:39 PM by ChazAtCaz

[exM20K]

7 minutes ago, ChazAtCaz said:

Right, I knew about useful load. Any idea what the weight add is with the TKS addition? 

Also, well aware of Don "Mooney" Maxwell, in TX. He's the man...

https://www.cav-systems.com/retrofit/mooney-m20-fiki/

[exM20K]

41 minutes ago, ChazAtCaz said:

Is there another STC that handles the TKS. And again, same question, who does that mod?

Cav Aero is the sole source for kits, STC no-hazard or FIKI.

FIKI requires dual alternators and a heated stall warning, which is my single least favorite piece of equipment from the single worst vendor I've ever dealt with in my business or personal life.

Lincoln Park Aviation would be closest to you for the installation.  Good peeps there.

-dan

[ChazAtCaz]

Much appreciated. Just chatted with Don Maxwell. 

[Ragsf15e]

25 minutes ago, ChazAtCaz said:

Much appreciated. Just chatted with Don Maxwell. 

Did he give you an idea that Encore conversions are still possible?

[ChazAtCaz]

Yes he did & it is.

[Pinecone]

Encore conversion consists of 3 parts.  You gain a 230 pound increase in GW.  My 252/Encore has a 1060 pound useful load.

1 - Change engine from -MB to -SB.  This is ONLY a change in the Max RPM and Max Boost.  It goes from 36 inches/2700 RPM to 39 inches/2600 RPM.  No internal changes to the engine itself.

2 - Change to the dual puck brakes.  Basically the brakes off a long body.  But brakes, some of the gear doors and the master cylinders.

3 - Change the balance weights on all the control surfaces.  I am not sure if they special or just ones off a long body.

When I was looking to buy in 2022, the cost was around $15,000.

[kortopates]

Encore conversion consists of 3 parts.  You gain a 230 pound increase in GW.  My 252/Encore has a 1060 pound useful load.
1 - Change engine from -MB to -SB.  This is ONLY a change in the Max RPM and Max Boost.  It goes from 36 inches/2700 RPM to 39 inches/2600 RPM.  No internal changes to the engine itself.
2 - Change to the dual puck brakes.  Basically the brakes off a long body.  But brakes, some of the gear doors and the master cylinders.
3 - Change the balance weights on all the control surfaces.  I am not sure if they special or just ones off a long body.
When I was looking to buy in 2022, the cost was around $15,000.

you left off the fuel pump change, there are some additional mooney parts to support the larger master cylinders too. And of course an Encore POH.
Also these are two different cumulative mods and brakes can be done first separately from the engine and balance weights if desired to stage them.

these are not a STC so any A&P can do these anytime with the drawings.


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[Pinecone]

17 hours ago, kortopates said:

you left off the fuel pump change, there are some additional mooney parts to support the larger master cylinders too. And of course an Encore POH.

Thanks.  I did not know about the fuel pump change.

Also, can you just reset the governor and wastegate, or are they different parts?

On my plane, they did the conversion by getting a FRM -SB, so everything got changed.

[kortopates]

Thanks.  I did not know about the fuel pump change.
Also, can you just reset the governor and wastegate, or are they different parts?
On my plane, they did the conversion by getting a FRM -SB, so everything got changed.

yes they are different parts. not watergate though but controller.


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[Aerodon]

1 hour ago, Pinecone said:

Thanks.  I did not know about the fuel pump change.

Also, can you just reset the governor and wastegate, or are they different parts?

On my plane, they did the conversion by getting a FRM -SB, so everything got changed.

The governor, fuel pump, manifold pressure controller and wastgate controller are different part numbers.  I send mine in for overhaul and conversion.  They are basically the same units with different settings and small internal changes.  The governor has a different internal spring.

There is also an extra support bracket for the turbo.

As mentioned above, new wheel spindles, double puck brakes, new master cylinders, new brake bell cranks on the master cylinders.  (these have a very minor angle change).

Balance weights - same as long bodies.  I see many Encore conversions without these.  My understanding is they took the parts off the production line in the mid nineties to build an Encore.

New inner gear doors - these have to be from Mooney.

Don

[jlunseth]

23 hours ago, ChazAtCaz said:

What I'm most interested in is the TKS / FIKI addition. I was under the impression that that was the 252 > 262 STC, based on what I've seen online, videos, etc. Is there another STC that handles the TKS. And again, same question, who does that mod?

I looked into the cost of adding TKS several years ago. Going from memory here, but I believe the weight is about 75 lbs and the cost was about 75k. Last time I looked, CAV was the party to contact but they were no longer doing the modification themselves, they would point you to a contractor who would do it.

[kortopates]

The governor, fuel pump, manifold pressure controller and wastgate controller are different part numbers.  I send mine in for overhaul and conversion.  They are basically the same units with different settings and small internal changes.  The governor has a different internal spring.
There is also an extra support bracket for the turbo.
As mentioned above, new wheel spindles, double puck brakes, new master cylinders, new brake bell cranks on the master cylinders.  (these have a very minor angle change).
Balance weights - same as long bodies.  I see many Encore conversions without these.  My understanding is they took the parts off the production line in the mid nineties to build an Encore.
New inner gear doors - these have to be from Mooney.
Don

Actually the waste gate part # is the same but the Wastegate controller and Manifold pressure controller ate synonymous with each other. The Continental part # for the controller did change but Hartzell part # is the same for both -SB and -MB controllers.


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[M20F]

I am hesitant to post this short cut.  The key is a blue pen which is “official”.
 

Change the 5 to a 6 in your log books but ensure it’s blue ink.  You are set. 
 
Please let’s keep this between us. 

[Pinecone]

6 hours ago, Aerodon said:

The governor, fuel pump, manifold pressure controller and wastgate controller are different part numbers.  I send mine in for overhaul and conversion.  They are basically the same units with different settings and small internal changes.  The governor has a different internal spring.

There is also an extra support bracket for the turbo.

As mentioned above, new wheel spindles, double puck brakes, new master cylinders, new brake bell cranks on the master cylinders.  (these have a very minor angle change).

Balance weights - same as long bodies.  I see many Encore conversions without these.  My understanding is they took the parts off the production line in the mid nineties to build an Encore.

New inner gear doors - these have to be from Mooney.

Don

So, those can be converted.  I seem to remember that.

I suspect that it is true they took them off the assembly line.  They were making mainly long bodies, so it made sense to use the same parts on the Encore.

Can you use long body gear doors?

[kortopates]

…
Can you use long body gear doors?

They are originally Bravo gear doors, that were the dual brake upgrade started from - the Bravo.


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[LANCECASPER]

2 hours ago, kortopates said:

They are originally Bravo gear doors, that were the dual brake upgrade started from - the Bravo.


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If I remember correctly, the dual puck brakes started with serial #0108 on the M20M.

[Ragsf15e]

So here’s an interesting one now that everyone is talking “dual puck”… DMax did the Encore conversion on mine in 2021 and the logbook entry refers to “the single puck Encore conversion, re Mooney Drawing…” 

I haven’t looked specifically at my brakes yet, but is there a single puck conversion?

[kortopates]

That doesn’t make sense. The original K model 231 and 252 brakes are single puck. The only conversion, which is for the Encore, is to double puck brakes. It’s pretty easy to tell visually since it’s has 4 brakes pads on each caliper. Also the middle gear door has a big bulge for the double puck brakes.


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