Does a Mooney Climb with Full Flaps?

[redbaron1982]

54 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

In all honesty I cant think of ever shooting an ILS to a short field, ILS as I’m old was my default in “hard” IFR. I don’t fly IFR anymore, I don’t have the need or desire and don’t maintain proficiency, so I just don’t. I’m one that believes proficiency and currency differ.

Are there any ILS equipped short fields? I guess that depends on your definition of short? I normally land with full flap, because that gives me the lowest landing speed and a lower deck angle, but I think you should be comfortable landing with no flap, because eventually you will have to.

A Mooney or any other GA aircraft will go around with gear down and full flaps, if nothing else an electrical failure is possible even if unlikely. But it won’t in every possible scenario. You can’t cover every possibility, if you try you will end up with a dog with no real range or useful load.

However every GA aircraft I can think of climbs best with NO flap. Many won’t use flaps on takeoff because of this, rather than getting wrapped around the axle on something that likely isn’t real important, I use T/O flaps because the POH calls for it. I’ve participated in several accident investigations, both Military and Civil. If your the aircraft Commander it’s far easier if you were following the POH as opposed to give a convincing argument why the POH is incorrect.

But in truth under normal circumstances it’s truly difficult to get a Certified GA airplane in a position it can’t fly, yet of course some do every year, we have all seen the videos of the airplane that gets off the ground but can’t climb because it’s in the region of reverse command. You just can’t build an idiot proof anything, there will always be a “better” idiot.

As with everything else all this is opinion, there are many ways to skin a cat, and no single way is always the best, that’s why in my opinion you should be comfortable with every possible way. For example if light weight and near sea level the shortest T/O in my Maule was with 48 degrees (full flap), but my normal T/O was no flap. I think it was 48 degrees anyway, point is depending on conditions maybe there is no one best flap position, which flies in the face of always follow the POH.  In my opinion you should do a couple of practice go-arounds full flap and gear down, learn it’s not anything to be afraid of, if you weren’t shown that then you should have, eventually you will need to go around on short final and scrambling to get gear and flap may not be prudent, possibly getting the aircraft climbing and you to settle down, then getting gear and flaps is a better idea.

Watch some videos of Corsairs take off of a Carrier if you want to see a lot of flap, or watch the T/O film of the Doolittle raid, those guys did a lot of practice with getting a heavy B-25 off short, I’m sure they tried everything.

Agreed 100%. I'm not sure how many shot fields there are where you can (and/or would be smart to) shoot an ILS down to minimums.

 

 

[201er]

1 hour ago, A64Pilot said:

I use T/O flaps because the POH calls for it. I’ve participated in several accident investigations, both Military and Civil. If your the aircraft Commander it’s far easier if you were following the POH as opposed to give a convincing argument why the POH is incorrect.

Not to mention all the POH performance data is based on takeoff flaps for takeoff and full flaps for landing.