Lesson Learned? Engine heating

[rturbett]

I was gifted a plug in timer that would  turn the engine heater on every morning and off every evening.  Sounded like a great idea to me, but when I discussed it with my mechanic he said DON'T DO IT.   He's said he has seen multiple engines ruined by people who have done this. Apparently the daily repetitive cycles causes a significant layer of condensation on the top inside of the engine.

So now I am trying to find out who has extended wifi on the field already.   Reception in the hangar is a challenge, so I will work on a boost antennae.

Previous owner left the plane plugged in all the time with no issues.

Happy holidays from 26 degree KSDC!

Rob

[toto]

Go with a cellular solution.  Trying to use FBO wifi from across the field is going to be an exercise in frustration..

[Marc B]

I used a remote wi-fi unit a while ago which worked well, however, the subscription was approx $45/month which I thought was excessive.

I bumped into a hangar neighbor recently who recommended the unit linked below. I have one on order, not received it yet. They're available in 2 channel and 4 channel versions and subscription is $50/year.

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pspages/tanisswitcheon_05-27121.php?clickkey=11611

[toto]

My DIY solution was just a cellular hotspot with a wifi plug.  I used a Google Fi data card (free) and it cost zero dollars per year to run.  (County outlawed anything plugged in while unattended, so my DIY solution is sitting in a pile somewhere, but still.)

[BDPetersen]

My airport had high speed internet available and I tapped into that a year ago with 1 gig speed at my hangar. A smart outlet lets me control my plug in heater from my phone. Even better, I put a point to point wi-fi from there to my house, 800’ away. The cable company promised wiring up the house for years, but nada. Get 500-600 speed at the house and said good bye to satellite internet.

[Marc_B]

https://www.gallagheraviationllc.com/Switcheon-Remote-Power-Control-Devices_c_50.html

I use a two channel Switcheon and it works well.  It also helps in the shoulder season to see what the hangar temp is on the app on my cell phone.  $50/year seems pretty minor.  Looks like I have another @Marc B above in agreement! 

[DXB]

Agree that turning it on and off daily is a bad idea.  However, assuming you have a heater with separate elements for the sump and each cylinder, it's fine to leave it on continuously. Also leave the dipstick unscrewed to let moisture escape.  You should be ok as long as you keep the entire engine above the dew point continuously. 

[Bolter]

Both Tanis and Reiff endorse plugging it in continuosly.  In the colder months, this is what I have done for several years.  No evidence either way of damage to the engine.  In very cold months, I add a blanket to the cowling to keep the temps up higher.  

An article from the Reiff site: http://www.reiffpreheat.com/Article-Fiorentini-ContinuousPreheating.pdf

From Tanis FAQ: https://www.tanisaircraft.com/faq/can-i-leave-a-tanis-preheat-system-plugged-in-all-the-time/

Note there is a recommendation of less than 100F ambient, which should be easy to accomodate.  

[jetdriven]

The higher the temperature, the more potential for corrosion, and  the more water the air in the engine can hold.  Just plug it in a few hours before you go fly otherwise, leave it cold.

[Marc_B]

https://www.savvyaviation.com/preheating-whys-and-hows/

Cycling temps daily just seems like a way to go past dew point twice and sounds like a bad idea. Continental and Shell recommended against 24/7 heating. Sounds like Tanis was set up with a desiccation system if they were leaving on 24/7.

From video linked above: when I m flying I like it warm, when I’m not flying leave it cold.

 

[Pinecone]

As long as the temp stays above the dew point INSIDE THE ENGINE, you will not get condensation, so less corrosion.

BUT, higher temps means that the corrosion that does occur will happen sooner and get worse faster.

My local flight school leaves their with heat one any time the airplanes are not flying.  And no problems.  

I have mine on a remote switch and only turn it on the night before I will be flying.

[Lax291]

You could be at the cutting edge and get the Roam from Starlink https://www.starlink.com/roam

Martin Pauly had a video where he used it flying and sounds pretty cool. Aside from the large upfront cost, the contracts are month to month so you're not locked it. 

[MattCW]

If you don't want to go with a cellular solution, you might could get WiFi to work by finding an adapter with an external antenna, and using a directional antenna pointed at the router/AP.

[Pinecone]

Won't work for me.

1800 feet from the FBO wifi and the wrong side of the T-hangar row.

[Ragsf15e]

7 hours ago, toto said:

My DIY solution was just a cellular hotspot with a wifi plug.  I used a Google Fi data card (free) and it cost zero dollars per year to run.  (County outlawed anything plugged in while unattended, so my DIY solution is sitting in a pile somewhere, but still.)

Are these google fi sim hotspots still available?  I’ve been nursing a 3g prepaid smart plug that is no longer supported…

[Ragsf15e]

8 hours ago, rturbett said:

I was gifted a plug in timer that would  turn the engine heater on every morning and off every evening.  Sounded like a great idea to me, but when I discussed it with my mechanic he said DON'T DO IT.   He's said he has seen multiple engines ruined by people who have done this. Apparently the daily repetitive cycles causes a significant layer of condensation on the top inside of the engine.

So now I am trying to find out who has extended wifi on the field already.   Reception in the hangar is a challenge, so I will work on a boost antennae.

Previous owner left the plane plugged in all the time with no issues.

Happy holidays from 26 degree KSDC!

Rob

Yeah, either always warm or just before you fly. Definitely no cycling!  I just leave mine freezing (Spokane wa) and turn on (remotely with cell) a ceramic heater on low with a dryer vent stuck to the face.  The dryer vent pokes up into the cowl flaps.  Dry, warm air for a couple hours and the entire engine compartment is ~70f even on cold days.  

[Ed de C.]

+ 1 for the Switch On solution and setting it to come on 5 or so hours before flight.  The Switch On app allows you to schedule the turn on time well in advance.  I have the engine heater and Tanis cabin heater on the circuit to warm the interior (there's a thread here on the cabin heating).  The Switch On unit was $249 and after a year you pay $50/yr for the cell service.  I wouldn't fuss with anything else. 

Ed

[DXB]

7 hours ago, jetdriven said:

The higher the temperature, the more potential for corrosion, and  the more water the air in the engine can hold.  Just plug it in a few hours before you go fly otherwise, leave it cold.

Corrosion rate is a function of RELATIVE humidity, not how much total water the air holds.  If you heat the engine uniformly in the winter leave a path for moisture to escape, the relative humidity of the air inside the engine will go down significantly, leading surfaces to stay dry (think of your skin getting dry when you run the heater at home in the winter).  

Of course the warmer temperature will increase the corrosion rate at a given relative humidity; however, if you keep humidity below ~60pct, the corrosion rate is quite low at any temperature. 

[toto]

2 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

Are these google fi sim hotspots still available?  I’ve been nursing a 3g prepaid smart plug that is no longer supported…

I don’t think they make this particular model any more, but you should be able to use any T-Mobile compatible hotspot. There are some on Amazon for under $100. I’m a Google Fi subscriber, and their data SIMs are completely free - I just put the Google Fi SIM in the hotspot, and it uses almost no data.

That little setup I have looks cheesy, but it’s actually nice to have the hotspot be separate from the WiFi plug, since you can change out either one if you need to. And you can have as many WiFi devices as you want in the hangar, all connecting to the same hotspot. 

[PeteMc]

9 hours ago, toto said:

I used a Google Fi data card (free) and it cost zero dollars per year to run. 

Google Fi is free?  You don't have to have a Google phone with a plan or anything else?  You just send in a request and you get free data?

I must be missing something?

 

[toto]

1 minute ago, PeteMc said:

Google Fi is free?  You don't have to have a Google phone with a plan or anything else?  You just send in a request and you get free data?

I must be missing something?

 

No, sorry - I’m a Google Fi subscriber. The unusual thing about Google Fi is that the data SIMs are completely free, but they do use the same data from your phone plan. I have four different devices on my Google Fi plan using data SIMs and they add zero cost to my service. Most other mobile carriers charge a fee for your iPad, watch, hotspot, whatever.

[Ragsf15e]

15 minutes ago, toto said:

No, sorry - I’m a Google Fi subscriber. The unusual thing about Google Fi is that the data SIMs are completely free, but they do use the same data from your phone plan. I have four different devices on my Google Fi plan using data SIMs and they add zero cost to my service. Most other mobile carriers charge a fee for your iPad, watch, hotspot, whatever.

Exactly.  I use tmobile and I can get a hotspot but it’s like 240/yr vs switcheon is only 50.  Google fi is nice if you use that carrier…

[jlunseth]

My plane is in a communal hangar at an FBO. We can call the FBO and have them plug the plane in before departure. But most everyone just has their plane plugged in constantly. Did I mention I live in Minnesota? It is 10 dF here this a.m. and it gets a lot colder than that in Jan and Feb.

[GeeBee]

Exactly. Plug it in and leave it on. I use an Aerotherm Deuce. Once temps go below 50 I put it on and leave it on. Aviation Consumer did research and found leaving a forced air heating system on is the best way to prevent corrosion in cold weather. I put a comforter over the cowl to lower the load on the heater. Yesterday, I arrived at my hangar, OAT 46, DP 29 oil temp on power up was 74. By leaving it on you take advantage of heat soaking the engine and using the latent heat properties of the oil to keep it that way, even after unplugging for flight.

[ArrowBerry]

I had made this post two years ago regarding our setup. I just renewed that same $15/month data plan and next time we are at the hangar we will be setting this up for winter number three.