G100UL is available at Reid Hillview (RHV)

[EricJ]

So does the STC stay with the engine or the airframe if they're separated?    I'm puzzling a bit about the need for the plate on the engine.

[Shadrach]

1 hour ago, katzhome said:

So the situation was very organized this morning at the KRHV terminal building, with a good line of 30 that stayed about that long the 30 minutes I was there.

George Braly was present as a few other GAMI employees and the AI.  They had placards, 337s, STCs and engine and airframe logbook entry forms ready to go as well as placard edge seal and high temp rtv adhesive for the engine plate.  The fueling truck was also there in the transient parking to support.

My placards are now on N43CA and logbook entries also in.  The 337s are in the pre-addressed envelope also provided.  Oh, and a nice GAMI G100UL bag and pin too.

Now I just need to burn off some fuel from my last trip to Oakdale to try this stuff out!

Good to see you there @donkaye!

 

Are your left and right fuel caps indexed differently? Ive never seen that.

[katzhome]

46 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

Are your left and right fuel caps indexed differently? Ive never seen that.

Yes, one does not point aft like the other.  The plane came that way and Top Gun hasn’t brought it up the past 2 years, even when we swapped out the gaskets.  The tab openings for the fill ports are the same.

[katzhome]

1 hour ago, toto said:

I wish those placards didn’t look like someone made them in Microsoft Word. 

We’re going to end up with every aircraft having like three semicircles of UL placards once all the STCd fuels are available 

They did have a couple of different flavors, a couple square and the semicircles.   The guy with the Bonanza (6 tank fills!) went with the square ones.  I liked the semicircle ones.

[katzhome]

53 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

Are your left and right fuel caps indexed differently? Ive never seen that.

And here I was expecting people to comment on how dirty my wings obviously are!  

@Shadrach, is there an adjustment I can do to the caps?

[Shadrach]

20 hours ago, katzhome said:

And here I was expecting people to comment on how dirty my wings obviously are!  

@Shadrach, is there an adjustment I can do to the caps?

I don’t think so. I’ll look at them next time I’m at the hangar.

No comment on the dirt. I have a T hangar neighbor behind me that squares up his Cessna with his hangar before putting it away. He has a dirt floor and every time he parks he blows a little bit of that floor over the wall and coats everything in my hangar.

[Max Clark]

On 10/31/2024 at 5:00 PM, donkaye said:

Unleaded fuel is inevitable.  To minimize the entry cost I bought the STC today.  Even though I am based at KSJC, the local airport pilots get 25 gallons free this Saturday.

The discounts seems to vary depending on when you bought or buy the STCs and whether you are based at KRHV or E16.  I've attached the  program for those interested and near RHV.  Your entry cost totals $620.

Edit: STC Cost apparently varies with engine HP, so my cost is in the upper region.

GAMI Reid Hillview 10 28 2024.pdf 289.64 kB · 10 downloads

Not based on CA but am planning on buying the STC for when I’m out that way. 

[larryb]

I got mine done yesterday. I decided to go late in the day and avoid the expected morning rush. That worked well, I walked right up to the desk and was out in 5 minutes. And the STC refund was promptly applied. It will be very nice to be able to buy fuel at my home airport again. Lack of fuel was a real pain. Finally something good happening at RHV.

 

Larry

 

 

[kortopates]

Not based on CA but am planning on buying the STC for when I’m out that way. 

I’ve had mine since they became available!


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[toto]

I was kind of kidding but not kidding about the placards. If theoretically we have a fleetwide STC for G100UL, 100R and then whatever the Lyondell product is called, would we need three separate placards on every fuel tank, and three metal tags on the engine to ensure that we can fill up on a cross country flight in a post-100LL world?

[wombat]

32 minutes ago, toto said:

I was kind of kidding but not kidding about the placards. If theoretically we have a fleetwide STC for G100UL, 100R and then whatever the Lyondell product is called, would we need three separate placards on every fuel tank, and three metal tags on the engine to ensure that we can fill up on a cross country flight in a post-100LL world?

Yes, if you want to be able to fill up with all three fuels. It'll feel like you are in a race car with sponsor stickers all over it.

Or plan your flight around where your preferred fuel is available.

Or don't apply the placards and say 'sorry' if you get caught without the STC being applied correctly. 

Or see if you can convince a friendly A&P that removing those placards and tags constitutes a 'minor modification' that can be logged in your aircraft's maintenance records.

[toto]

51 minutes ago, wombat said:

Yes, if you want to be able to fill up with all three fuels. It'll feel like you are in a race car with sponsor stickers all over it.

Or plan your flight around where your preferred fuel is available.

Or don't apply the placards and say 'sorry' if you get caught without the STC being applied correctly. 

Or see if you can convince a friendly A&P that removing those placards and tags constitutes a 'minor modification' that can be logged in your aircraft's maintenance records.

At the moment, it’s just a fuel-or-not-fuel question for an airport on a cross country flight. But if we had three non-interchangeable fuels each with their own STC, things could get weird. 

I assume that sooner or later, we’ll have a “winner” formulation and airports will all buy that fuel. But it could be a while.  And if California is any indication, it might happen piecemeal - with one state or municipality allowing 100LL and another not. And the different STC owners will ink deals with different FBO owners. So having all three STCs might be a real advantage, idk. 

The non-interchangeability thing will be a PITA if it remains past fleetwide availability of 100R though. 

[kortopates]

At the moment, it’s just a fuel-or-not-fuel question for an airport on a cross country flight. But if we had three non-interchangeable fuels each with their own STC, things could get weird. 
I assume that sooner or later, we’ll have a “winner” formulation and airports will all buy that fuel. But it could be a while.  And if California is any indication, it might happen piecemeal - with one state or municipality allowing 100LL and another not. And the different STC owners will ink deals with different FBO owners. So having all three STCs might be a real advantage, idk. 
The non-interchangeability thing will be a PITA if it remains past fleetwide availability of 100R though. 

If it really comes down to three different UL fuel types, then many of us will likely have a placard that just list all the approved fuels for that aircraft. Don’t need separate placards for each. Most Mooney’s already have a placard listing multiple leaded fuel types now even though only one of them is in use today.
it’s really not that complicated. But don’t expect a fueler to add a fuel type that isn’t placarded for your aircraft. If caught the FAA could really come down on him/her.

A further note on the importance of placards, many Mooney’s wouldn’t be able to get through a checkride without addressing the missing or unreadable fuel capacity placard by their fuel caps. A DPE would make that a learning event and end the checkride at the start till fixed.

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[EricJ]

2 hours ago, toto said:

I was kind of kidding but not kidding about the placards. If theoretically we have a fleetwide STC for G100UL, 100R and then whatever the Lyondell product is called, would we need three separate placards on every fuel tank, and three metal tags on the engine to ensure that we can fill up on a cross country flight in a post-100LL world?

That doesn't seem to be pragmatic to me, and isn't the "drop-in" characteristic that has been expected or promised.   Nobody wants to see off airport landings because somebody tried to stretch a tank to make the next airport that has fuel approved for their airplane.  I think there will be a lot happen before this gets sorted out, and I suspect it's not going to play out like many think.

[toto]

6 minutes ago, kortopates said:

If it really comes down to three different UL fuel types, then many of us will likely have a placard that just list all the approved fuels for that aircraft. Don’t need separate placards for each. Most Mooney’s already have a placard listing multiple leaded fuel types now even though only one of them is in use today.
it’s really not that complicated. But don’t expect a fueler to add a fuel type that isn’t placarded for your aircraft. If caught the FAA could really come down on him/her.


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Interesting. I thought that you had to have exactly the placard shown in the flight manual supplement. Can you make your own placard as long as it contains the relevant text?

[kortopates]

…Can you make your own placard as long as it contains the relevant text?

Absolutely you can. Many of you have some placards silkscreened on to your panels.


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[toto]

5 minutes ago, EricJ said:

That doesn't seem to be pragmatic to me, and isn't the "drop-in" characteristic that has been expected or promised.   Nobody wants to see off airport landings because somebody tried to stretch a tank to make the next airport that has fuel approved for their airplane.  I think there will be a lot happen before this gets sorted out, and I suspect it's not going to play out like many think.

I think so too, but we’re already sort of there for certain 172s that have both G100UL and 100R available under STC, and GAMI is currently saying that you can’t mix G100UL with 100R.

As long as 100LL is available, it’s academic, but still. 

[toto]

Just now, kortopates said:

Absolutely you can. Many of you have some placards silkscreened on to your panels.


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Cool, fair enough. Thank you 

[Pinecone]

7 hours ago, kortopates said:

I’ve had mine since they became available!

I'm not in CA, but I bought mine before you bought yours.

 

[Pinecone]

2 hours ago, toto said:

I think so too, but we’re already sort of there for certain 172s that have both G100UL and 100R available under STC, and GAMI is currently saying that you can’t mix G100UL with 100R.

 

Where is 100R available?

[kortopates]

I'm not in CA, but I bought mine before you bought yours.
 

Smart man or should i say pilot


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[Pinecone]

52 minutes ago, kortopates said:

Smart man or should i say pilot

The first two STCs sold to the public were to Mooney owners.  I have STC 0006.  The first 5 were part of the site testing.  0001 went to American Bonanza Society.

[Z W]

On 11/2/2024 at 5:44 PM, katzhome said:

Is there an adjustment I can do to the caps?

Those look like the same caps on my K.  If so, they are a two-piece design held together by a bolt, nut, and cotter pin.  If you remove the cotter pin and nut, you may be able to "clock" the top piece differently to orient your tab to match the other side. 

Note - the tightness of your cap tab is determined by the torque of the nut.  If it's too tight, loosen the nut a quarter or half turn, replace the cotter pin, and try again. Fought too-tight caps for years before I learned this trick.

There is an internal O-ring on the bolt that keeps water from running down the inside of your cap into your fuel tank.  Good time to replace it with a fluorosilicone version while you have it apart.

 

[Ryan ORL]

Feels like this whole STC requirement paperwork mess could go away if there was the political will to do so.  It isn't like some natural law of physics that it has to be done this way.  Like has been done with many of the recent FAR changes, Congress could effectively force the FAA to bless G100UL (or any suitable fuel) as a blanket addition to all type certificates or whatever other regulatory remedy was most expedient.

But I think to get to that point, G100UL or another unleaded replacement are going to need to get a critical mass of adoption first.  It's just too bad there isn't some better carrot/stick situation here like there was with the ADS-B mandate.  (FIS-B weather, traffic, etc)  Ultimately I think California is probably (inadvertently) doing GA a service with their mandates that are forcing this along.  Certainly it was going nowhere fast otherwise.

[katzhome]

12 hours ago, Pinecone said:

The first two STCs sold to the public were to Mooney owners.  I have STC 0006.  The first 5 were part of the site testing.  0001 went to American Bonanza Society.

I think I was 0007 !