AOPA Asks FAA to Block ADS-B Tracking for Fees

[Hank]

Just now, CCAS said:

Does anyone have first-hand experience petitioning the FAA through their Limiting Aircraft Data Displayed (LADD) program to restrict displaying your registration number via ADS-B? 
 

https://www.faa.gov/pilots/ladd

 

Still won't keep every Tom, Dick and Harry from googling my N# and being given my name, age and address . . . .

[wombat]

@201Mooniac If you are actually keeping your airplane in CA as well as living there, and you did not buy your aircraft new from a dealer, then yes, you are missing that you should have paid use tax on it when you bought it.   They might be able to demand payment at any time, including penalties and interest.

 

https://www.cdtfa.ca.gov/industry/vehicles-vessels-aircraft/

 

You must report your purchase of an aircraft subject to use tax to the CDTFA. In general, use tax applies to purchases of aircraft for use in this state when an amount for sales tax is not paid to a California dealer. This includes purchases from out-of-state sellers, private parties, or California dealers when delivery of the aircraft is taken out of state. Unless an exemption or exclusion applies, you must pay use tax on your aircraft purchase directly to the CDTFA.

[Andy95W]

3 hours ago, EricJ said:

The anonymity can be attained by changing what's transmitted, rather than encrypting the signal, 

 

My ADS-B has an “Anonymous Mode”, which I hope does exactly this. That isn’t available for 1090ES, but is for UAT if I’m squawking 1200.

So the big question- does anyone know if this truly keeps my identity anonymous, or am I just kidding myself?

[201Mooniac]

43 minutes ago, wombat said:

@201Mooniac If you are actually keeping your airplane in CA as well as living there, and you did not buy your aircraft new from a dealer, then yes, you are missing that you should have paid use tax on it when you bought it.   They might be able to demand payment at any time, including penalties and interest.

 

https://www.cdtfa.ca.gov/industry/vehicles-vessels-aircraft/

 

You must report your purchase of an aircraft subject to use tax to the CDTFA. In general, use tax applies to purchases of aircraft for use in this state when an amount for sales tax is not paid to a California dealer. This includes purchases from out-of-state sellers, private parties, or California dealers when delivery of the aircraft is taken out of state. Unless an exemption or exclusion applies, you must pay use tax on your aircraft purchase directly to the CDTFA.

I have been paying all the taxes as required, I was asking about the registration mentioned several times.  I have not registered my airplane in CA, only with the FAA.  I get my yearly assessment for property taxes but this is because I am on the roles due to my hangar lease.

[Jerry 5TJ]

23 minutes ago, Andy95W said:

My ADS-B has an “Anonymous Mode”, which I hope does exactly this. That isn’t available for 1090ES, but is for UAT if I’m squawking 1200.

So the big question- does anyone know if this truly keeps my identity anonymous, or am I just kidding myself?

The answer is, as usual, “it depends.”   
The type of UAT system you use is a factor.  Some (like the ones that replace a wing recognition light) are listening to your Mode A/C transponder radiated signal and they are allegedly only entering anonymous mode after they verify the 1200 squawk.  Your prior UAT emissions contain the FAA assigned unique hex code id.  
Other UAT equipment, such as the GDL-88, are hardwired to their controller, like a GTN750, and if powered up in code 1200 anonymous mode should not transmit the user id data.  
Mode S interrogation formats include one type where a specific hex id is told to reply. I suspect that the UAT would reply to the selective interrogation with an anonymous reply but as the reply is time synchronized to the interrogation the id is obvious to the interrogator.  In such a case the crowd-sourced receiver networks (like FlightAware) would not have the id from your airborne reply.  
There are non-cooperative airborne target id systems in use that do not depend on your transponder reply at all.  Those data are not likely shared with local or state tax authorities, tho.  
Aside: Within the DC SFRA squawking code 1200 is not permitted, so the anonymous mode is not enabled.  

[wombat]

2 hours ago, 201Mooniac said:

I have been paying all the taxes as required, I was asking about the registration mentioned several times.  I have not registered my airplane in CA, only with the FAA.  I get my yearly assessment for property taxes but this is because I am on the roles due to my hangar lease.

No, there is currently no state registration required.  There is a bill in California that will require state registration if it passes though:  https://legiscan.com/CA/text/SB1505/id/2932785 but that is not yet law.

 

And maybe you did pay the use tax when you bought the plane, but most people I talk to who have just bought a plane have two questions about the use tax:  "Do I REALLY have to pay it?" and then "How will they catch me if I just don't pay it?" which implies if they think they won't get caught, they won't pay.    And without a mandatory registration that can be gated on paying the use tax, enforcement might be light.

[A64Pilot]

16 hours ago, Andy95W said:

My ADS-B has an “Anonymous Mode”, which I hope does exactly this. That isn’t available for 1090ES, but is for UAT if I’m squawking 1200.

So the big question- does anyone know if this truly keeps my identity anonymous, or am I just kidding myself?

Both, it doesn’t transmit your N number only when your Squawking 1200, mine transmits VFR where you normally see the N number, but any squawk other than 1200 transmits the N number and even when you are transmitting VFR ATC knows who you are, and I think that Flight Aware etc gets your N number even when you are transmitting VFR, but I’m not sure on that because I also did the LADD thing so when you try to track me on Flight Aware you won’t find me.

However apparently there are sites that don’t follow the LADD thing and do give out tracking data, I assume these are those “nuts” as I call them that build receivers and put the data out.

There are also what I call nuts, but they call themselves “aircraft spotters” that walk around writing down N numbers and report the location for some reason. I ran into that at Sun-N-Fun 20 years or so ago.

So even if your not on an IFR flight plan, if your flight following then of course your transmitting your N number.

 

Edited September 17 by A64Pilot

[FlyingDude]

18 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

but any squawk other than 1200 transmits

If I'm squawking 1200 on my GTX 345, am I anonymous?

[A64Pilot]

10 minutes ago, FlyingDude said:

If I'm squawking 1200 on my GTX 345, am I anonymous?

Not unless your ADSB out has Anonymous mode and it’s activated. Very few people activate it, some I believe require a switch to be installed. 

I only VERY rarely ever see VFR where the tail number goes so I know the overwhelming majority of people don’t activate it or don’t have it.

Edited September 17 by A64Pilot

[Will.iam]

With the GTX345 you can change your callsign in the box for when you do things like angel flights and are using that callsign. Does the GTX 345 also transmit your N# too?

[MikeOH]

One more data point:  I have a uAvionix TailBeacon and have used it in its 'out of the box' configuration.  Here in southern California I have been called in the blind by ATC using my N number while squawking 1200 (i.e. NOT on flight following, just 'monitoring' appoach); so, yeah, they see it.

[Andy95W]

2 hours ago, MikeOH said:

One more data point:  I have a uAvionix TailBeacon and have used it in its 'out of the box' configuration.  Here in southern California I have been called in the blind by ATC using my N number while squawking 1200 (i.e. NOT on flight following, just 'monitoring' appoach); so, yeah, they see it.

ATC might see it, but it also depends on how it was configured during the installation. Per the uAvionix manual, there is an anonymous mode when squawking 1200 but it has to be configured that way. 

[MikeOH]

6 hours ago, Andy95W said:

ATC might see it, but it also depends on how it was configured during the installation. Per the uAvionix manual, there is an anonymous mode when squawking 1200 but it has to be configured that way. 

That was my point with my 'out of the box' configuration; NOT anonymous mode.

[skykrawler]

I'm fairly sure that part of the ADS-B message (both UAT and 1090) is the Mode-S identifier.  This can be directly translated (algorithmically) into the tail number.

So while most applications won't compare the Mode-S ID with the tail number field and correct the tail number for display, some could.

...so that wouldn't prevent tracking for fees.

[NewMoon]

On 9/13/2024 at 10:37 PM, PeteMc said:

Down side is that those airports that ARE going to charge landing fees will do it without ADS-B if it is not an option.  And when they push through the need to do it (if they have to go to any governing body), they will just up the fees to include the employee hours to do it.  So instead of what could have been a $2or $3 charge for the Airport to make money, it will be a $10 charge for the staffing.

 

I never seen $2 or $3, I just got charged $11 at St. Augustine

[NewMoon]

On 9/13/2024 at 11:37 PM, NickG said:

Come and land in Las Vegas ( VGT, LAS, HND ) during a “special event”. Fees for light aircraft (up to 6k#) $750 up to $5000. They want to raise it to $10,000 for the top tier over the next 5 years.

expect their landings to drop,  egregious 

[NewMoon]

On 9/15/2024 at 8:00 AM, A64Pilot said:

If anyone is interested this is one way, cost more than $50 a yr as there are a couple of other fees and your airplane is registered as a Montanna aircraft, you get a sticker to put on it. It’s surely less than $100, I honestly haven’t kept track

The service is set up as a tax dodge for Motorhomes and it works for that, but depending on your State it may not for Aircraft (different rules)

https://www.49dollarmontanaregisteredagent.com/?gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAADcPHQHObgenCOfU_LTzQKyK1gVit&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI4rHctPLEiAMVSJ5aBR3aUznlEAAYASAAEgI4jfD_BwE

I register cars in MT for this reason. Services handle it all for you, set up the LLC, register the car and send you the plates. 

[Bolter]

On 9/16/2024 at 2:39 PM, 201Mooniac said:

I have been paying all the taxes as required, I was asking about the registration mentioned several times.  I have not registered my airplane in CA, only with the FAA.  I get my yearly assessment for property taxes but this is because I am on the roles due to my hangar lease.

My former SoCal pilot experience is that one day a year (or probably a time window) , the airport manager surveys and reports all aircraft on the airport.  This will include hangared and tie down spots.  Even if you did not have a hangar or tiedown lease, but parked in transient parking, you would get tracked and billed by the county for the property tax.  If you were truly a transient pilot, you could challenge the tax bill, which I did when I moved from LA to Orange county (both wanted to tax me the year I moved airports), and later when I left California entirely.  

I always wondered if you had your own runway, would you then never be counted?  Now, probably get caught by ADS-B!

-dan

[NickG]

On 9/16/2024 at 1:27 PM, Hank said:

Still won't keep every Tom, Dick and Harry from googling my N# and being given my name, age and address . . . .

Yes, our G280 won’t show up if you try to track it. N826SC.

[Hank]

1 hour ago, NickG said:

Yes, our G280 won’t show up if you try to track it. N826SC.

But the FAA still gives away all of your information. 

https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/Search/NNumberResult?NNumberTxt=826SC

[NickG]

49 minutes ago, Hank said:

But the FAA still gives away all of your information. 

https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/Search/NNumberResult?NNumberTxt=826SC

Yes, that's true but that's a special purpose LLC whose sole job is to "own" the plane.  CM003 has no function other than that. You can't track the movement of the plane by knowing the location of the entity that owns it.

[GeeBee]

No but the N number will work fine and that is the point of the OP

https://www.flightaware.com/live/flight/N916MP

[ArtVandelay]

Yes, our G280 won’t show up if you try to track it. N826SC.

Yes it will, if you use :

https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=ab48b8

But it limits past flights to last 24 hours, unlike flightaware.

Even Musk can’t prevent people from tracking his plane.

Best option is to use netjets.

[FlyingDude]

2 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

But it limits past flights to last 24 hours, unlike flightaware.

No, there's the archive that goes way back.

[ArtVandelay]

No, there's the archive that goes way back.

I see that now, the interface is a bit awkward.