Panel upgrade

[MikeOH]

33 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

With GTN Xi paired with GFC500 (probably closer to $30K):
Smart glide
VS, IAS climbs and descents.
VNAV
ILS, LPV coupled approaches down to minimums.
Airway support.
Visual approaches
No worry about lack of support (stec or 430).
And probably a lot of other stuff I can’t remember.

The question is if any of that is important to you.

Of those:

Smart Glide definitely of value in an emergency
Airway support is nice to have; but I'll get that when the 430 croaks and gets replaced with an Avidyne
Lack of support is a concern, but in nearly 7 years my STEC has been flawless and was designed back when things could be repaired; I think 3rd party support will be around for as long as I need it.  Avidyne solves the 430 issue as noted above.

The rest, not important to me.

Seems a pretty poor value for $30K.  And, does that number include taxes and installation?  Still seems low for a GTN, servos, harnessing AND the GFC500.

[ArtVandelay]

Seems a pretty poor value for $30K.  And, does that number include taxes and installation?  Still seems low for a GTN, servos, harnessing AND the GFC500.

I assume with that thinking, you drive older cars. After all they do pretty much everything a new car does?

That wasn’t a quote, just a rough estimate based on my experience.

[MikeOH]

2 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

I assume with that thinking, you drive older cars. After all they do pretty much everything a new car does?

That wasn’t a quote, just a rough estimate based on my experience.

Correct.  Why should I pay depreciation when somebody else will?  Same analysis, I don't want or need most new car features.  I have my iPhone for times I need nav help.  My cars aren't so old as to not have all the creature comforts.

While I realize 'it wasn't a quote', it should be representative of reality.  It started at $20K, then you posited $30K...if it gets to $40K (which I think is closer to the truth for what you listed after install and tax) that's pretty much 100% more than the original 'for $20K' you could...

Just to be clear, if that's what you enjoy spending your money on then more power to you!  My issue has been with the 'you should' because 'it's safer'....the implication being I'm an unsafe pilot simply because I won't upgrade.  (Not saying YOU said that)

[Ragsf15e]

To the OP, maybe a bit contrarian here, but I might actually do a simple 2 servo gfc500 installation.  You will also need a g5 or gi275 to run it, but those could fit in existing space so no new panel.  With the basic autopilot, you’ll find long vfr cross country much more relaxing and you can spend the extra brainpower on staying aware of weather, fuel, airspace, etc.  For vfr, you really don’t need that fancy waas gps when you’ve got one in your phone, ipad and the g5!  Just select the track you want for your destination as the heading bug and the autopilot will get you there!  If you go with this simple setup, you have the basics of a system that could be upgraded easily later with the full autopilot and whatever glass you want.  My guess is $25k installed.  

You can probably find a newer gen used radio if you want, but old ones usually are good until they die.  Is something wrong with your wiring to make it weak/scratchy?

[802flyer]

To the OP, maybe a bit contrarian here, but I might actually do a simple 2 servo gfc500 installation.  You will also need a g5 or gi275 to run it, but those could fit in existing space so no new panel.  With the basic autopilot, you’ll find long vfr cross country much more relaxing and you can spend the extra brainpower on staying aware of weather, fuel, airspace, etc.  For vfr, you really don’t need that fancy waas gps when you’ve got one in your phone, ipad and the g5!  Just select the track you want for your destination as the heading bug and the autopilot will get you there!  If you go with this simple setup, you have the basics of a system that could be upgraded easily later with the full autopilot and whatever glass you want.  My guess is $25k installed.  
You can probably find a newer gen used radio if you want, but old ones usually are good until they die.  Is something wrong with your wiring to make it weak/scratchy?

And if you end up with a Gi275, there is some amount of VFR nav capability built in. However I’m not sure exactly how capable it is, and suspect you might need two 275s to make it work (one PFD that also runs the autopilot, and one to serve as HSI/nav). I’ve always researched them as a combo pack with an IFR navigator so didn’t memorize this use case. Maybe a G5PFD and 275 HSI to save money, if you can stand mixing square and round.


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[Pinecone]

For strict VFR, maybe do a G3X Touch.  it has a built in VFR Only GPS.   I am not totally sure if the 7" will work this way.

[LANCECASPER]

Forget about the post-2019 market where seemingly almost anything that flies has sold - that's not normal. During the nearly 40 years I've owned airplanes it has been a buyer's market much more often than a seller's market. I'll go out on a limb and say that at least 80% of those years (32 years of the 40) have been a buyer's market (more willing sellers than willing buyers).

One way, not the only way, but one way to look at panel upgrades is that every airplane will get sold at some point. If it was for sale today in 2024, what would a 2024 buyer of that model expect in the panel? How long will it take to sell the airplane without what they expect? What kind of a discount will it take to sell it without what is expected? 

If it turns out that you have to discount what it's going to take to install what's expected just to sell the airplane, that means you paid for it at the end of ownership without ever enjoying the benefits of the upgrade cost, even for one day. Reasonable upgrades, which almost every buyer would be pleased with, means you enjoyed them during ownership plus it will likely sell sooner at a price closer to your asking price - meaning you got some of your money back.

This is an enjoyable hobby, not something that makes any financial sense whatsoever, no matter how good you are at justifying it. If you're doing it for enjoyment and you have the financial ability to make it more enjoyable, why deny yourself? On the flip side if you're just boring holes in the sky and it wouldn't make any real difference, then just accept that when you go to sell you may end up paying for the upgrade, one way or the other.  Again that's just one way to look at it, but I'm not the only one who sees it that way. I heard Jimmy Garrison mention that years ago at a MAPA convention and it made sense then, and maybe even more sense today. (A 30 yr old buy expects more in the panel today than they would have 20 years ago.)

 

[MikeOH]

@LANCECASPER

An interesting argument.  But the tacit assumption is that seller overpaid for a 'poorly' equipped plane in the first place.  More likely he got a good price (based exactly upon your point).  So, if he invests nothing in upgrades I don't see how he going to lose out when it comes time for him to sell.  Naturally, a salesman like Jimmy WANTS to encourage owners to add expensive upgrades.  As you point out, it is much easier to sell!

I think the best way to look at this is if adding and using upgrades is part of your enjoyment of flying, and you can accept that enjoyment is going to cost you 50 cents on the dollar, then go for it.  But I would caution that the loss may exceed 50% on a lower value aircraft.  E.g. putting $50K in upgrades into a $40K airplane is unlikely to make it sell for even $65K.

[Fly Boomer]

5 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

when you go to sell you may end up paying for the upgrade, one way or the other

I like it!  This is an excellent tool in my toolbox of justifications.  Thanks!