Grumpy Posted March 29 Report Share Posted March 29 Throwing this out in hopes of the smart people helping me out...the company I work for is willing to allow me to fly to work sites (my plane) and claim the travel, but we are getting stuck on workers comp insurance...the carrier bluntly stated they'd drop our company the second they allow anyone to fly to a work site. I'm looking for options to pass to leadership so that I can take a 3 hour hop vice a 7 hour drive. Huge thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombat Posted March 29 Report Share Posted March 29 My employer started including a prohibition on employees flying themselves at some point in the last 10 years as well. We are self-insured and just have the insurance companies administering the details for us so it's not like the insurance company would be at risk by covering this, but the variability of cost for this scenario is so high they might have said in their proposal to run the program for us that they are only willing to do it if my employer prohibits personal aircraft. And I hate to admit it, but why would they bother? The employer is basically not out any money at all by doing this. They expose themselves to risk, both financially and socially.... Financially, even though they might have airtight legal paperwork that absolves them of responsibility, lawsuits are decided by people, and these days public sentiment is to take anything we can from 'the rich' to give to anybody poor. And if your company is still running, they are rich. And if you have a plane, (like Taylor Swift!) then you are rich too. So there will be plenty of lawyers salivating to file that lawsuit. Even if they know they are unlikely to actually win, a $5 million settlement from your employer is likely to be cheaper for your employer than fighting and winning, so they'll settle. Who loses? Your employer. Socially, do you want to be dealing with customers who are mad about the cost you are charging them after your employees have been in the news for crashing their airplane and killing some innocent bystanders? An airplane, just like Taylor Swift and Bill Gates fly around in all the time, and the fees we pay to this company are funding your employees in this lifestyle? Your employer's competitors would LOVE it. "Go with us, we don't rip you off for enough money for our employees to fly around in their personal jets." And what does your employer get out of letting you fly? Nothing. You are probably on salary, so you have to do the same amount of work anyway, at the same locations, for the same compensation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midlifeflyer Posted March 29 Report Share Posted March 29 This is not at all unusual. Your homeowners’ and umbrella have exclusions. In most states, workers comp insurance can’t simply exclude that risk so they insist on not allowing it. There are very likely insurers which permit it, but I’d expect the premium differential to be significant, too big for anything other than a flight department. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombat Posted March 29 Report Share Posted March 29 2 hours ago, midlifeflyer said: This is not at all unusual. Your homeowners’ and umbrella have exclusions. In most states, workers comp insurance can’t simply exclude that risk so they insist on not allowing it. There are very likely insurers which permit it, but I’d expect the premium differential to be significant, too big for anything other than a flight department. My employer's Accidental Death & Dismemberment policy excludes any activity (other than the company pilots flying the company planes) where the employee is acting as a pilot, student pilot, or required crewmember of any flight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LANCECASPER Posted March 29 Report Share Posted March 29 5 hours ago, Grumpy said: Throwing this out in hopes of the smart people helping me out...the company I work for is willing to allow me to fly to work sites (my plane) and claim the travel, but we are getting stuck on workers comp insurance...the carrier bluntly stated they'd drop our company the second they allow anyone to fly to a work site. I'm looking for options to pass to leadership so that I can take a 3 hour hop vice a 7 hour drive. Huge thanks in advance. As much as i can sympathize, as has been mentioned, there is virtually no upside for the company. In addition to that, while it's true you may save a few hours, but by the time it's all said and done, when you have to drive to the airport, pre-flight the airplane, get transportation from the airport to the jobsite, etc., there isn't nearly as much savings as we would like to justify. And then if weather changes it can throw a wrench into your outbound or return flight plans. Single engine airplanes are great fun and a great means of personal leisure travel, but when you absolutely have to be there, they have their limitations. As the old saying goes . . time to spare, go by air. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fly Boomer Posted March 29 Report Share Posted March 29 4 hours ago, wombat said: And if you have a plane, (like Taylor Swift!) then you are rich too. I take your point, but I think Taylor sold her 900 about three days after the latest Internet blow-up on being eco-friendly. I'm sure she doesn't curtail her travel, but now she can't be tracked so easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N201MKTurbo Posted March 30 Report Share Posted March 30 50 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said: I take your point, but I think Taylor sold her 900 about three days after the latest Internet blow-up on being eco-friendly. I'm sure she doesn't curtail her travel, but now she can't be tracked so easily. But she still has another jet. She sold the 900 because her boyfriend couldn’t stand up in it, not to be green. She plans on buying a bigger jet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritz1 Posted March 30 Report Share Posted March 30 As stated before no upside for the company, you are a good pilot with a reliable airplane but you might inspire other employees to do the same and they might just crash. It becomes easier when you are self employed. I charge clients a premium economy ticket, generally fly in the day before if there is a morning meeting. Looking at the effort that goes into planning, preparing and executing the flight it often appears the business revolves around the airplane and not the other way around, but it feels great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M20F Posted April 1 Report Share Posted April 1 On 3/29/2024 at 8:19 PM, N201MKTurbo said: . She plans on buying a bigger jet. More than likely renting or leasing. https://www.businessinsider.com/louis-vuitton-bernard-arnault-sold-private-jet-people-tracking-twitter-2022-10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N201MKTurbo Posted April 1 Report Share Posted April 1 1 hour ago, M20F said: More than likely renting or leasing. https://www.businessinsider.com/louis-vuitton-bernard-arnault-sold-private-jet-people-tracking-twitter-2022-10 It will just make the trackers more creative. I think it is a losing battle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron McBride Posted April 1 Report Share Posted April 1 Can you name the company you work for as an additional insured? Ask the company attorney if he can help find a mutual solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parker_Woodruff Posted April 1 Report Share Posted April 1 On 3/29/2024 at 12:58 PM, Grumpy said: Throwing this out in hopes of the smart people helping me out...the company I work for is willing to allow me to fly to work sites (my plane) and claim the travel, but we are getting stuck on workers comp insurance...the carrier bluntly stated they'd drop our company the second they allow anyone to fly to a work site. I'm looking for options to pass to leadership so that I can take a 3 hour hop vice a 7 hour drive. Huge thanks in advance. I write aviation workers' compensation insurance but there could be a problem trying to get a company to write a policy for just one employee. Will there be more employees involved? Or is there any other aviation exposure at your company to provide some supporting business? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy Posted April 1 Author Report Share Posted April 1 Sadly, no, just me. Like I said, my company is supportive (it would enable some significant growth, so they are trying to make this work), but their WC underwriter is basically "no". I'm the only guy who flies (and the only guy who has a plane). The company is not an aviation related effort, so I'm sadly coming to the conclusion this just isn't possible. I did already add my company as "additional insured", but the WC folks are still a hard no. Kind of a bummer, but appreciate everyone's input and thanks for spending a little time on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LANCECASPER Posted April 1 Report Share Posted April 1 5 hours ago, Grumpy said: Sadly, no, just me. Like I said, my company is supportive (it would enable some significant growth, so they are trying to make this work), but their WC underwriter is basically "no". I'm the only guy who flies (and the only guy who has a plane). The company is not an aviation related effort, so I'm sadly coming to the conclusion this just isn't possible. I did already add my company as "additional insured", but the WC folks are still a hard no. Kind of a bummer, but appreciate everyone's input and thanks for spending a little time on this. Is Virginia a state that requires that businesses have Workers Comp? If not can they exclude you and just make sure you have disability coverage? Are you open to being an Independent Contractor? I flew my own airplane for a few years for a client visiting some of their customers as an Independent Contractor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fritz1 Posted April 1 Report Share Posted April 1 Independent contractor sounds like an avenue to explore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parker_Woodruff Posted April 2 Report Share Posted April 2 Independent contractors often have to be underwritten on Workers Compensation policies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinecone Posted April 3 Report Share Posted April 3 When we had our consulting company, for one project we had to get WC insurance. Only thing is, as owners of the company we were exempt from being covered by WC. So we had to pay an insurance company for a letter saying that the company had WC insurance, but then it exempted the two people working for the company from coverage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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