Portable GPS choice and synergy with database updates

[dkkim73]

Hello All,

Was corresponding with a couple knowledgeable members about this and realized it would be good to ask more widely:

I've been researching database options for my new plane (M20TN, thus G1000) and devices, Jepp vs. Garmin databases, plate types, etc. Read several related discussions along the way, which I *think* are still current regarding the bundle offerings (fairly confusing). Hoping to get the hive mind's opinion also on dedicated portable aviation GPSes. 

Historically, I'd flown with a GPSMap 196 (one of the first units with a virtual panel, black and white, latest SW release in 2011), paper govt charts, and a GNS430W. So I'm spoiled by the idea of a G1000 (WAAS + ADS-B in/out + XM receiver). Also bought a newer iPad air and Foreflight (mid-level subscription). 

Thinking to go with a Garmin DB subscription including the Jepp nav data but regular gov't charts for the G1000 (the "PilotPak" vs the "OnePak" with Garmin data, though some say the Garmin data is adequate esp. in the US; I don't anticipate flying up to Canada much at least in the near future). Seems like several experienced folks here favor not squinting at the G1000 for the plates, thus the idea to just get regular govt plates for the G1000. Maybe add Jepp plates to the Foreflight subscription since I've not used them much but they have nice added features. 

My main question is:

Should I also have a newer portable unit? In the past, I've been a snob about real TSO'ed gear, even if simpler, and dedicated units, though I have to admit iPads have become a great deal better and Foreflight is a superb product UX-wise. I used to love the 196 as backup on the yoke and Garmin used to be generous with updates. Less so now. 

And how does this affect any software choices I might otherwise make? It seems like the OnePak would cover a new Garmin GPS DB as well, but if I read it correctly would imply using Garmin rather than Jeppesen nav data. 

Looking at updating the DB separately for close to $300 to have the 196 work as a backup, vs perhaps get an Aera? Is that overkill either way with the G1000 and a Foreflight/Sentry? One Aera user spoke very highly of it and opined that the G196 is basically done-for, which I think is probably true. Fun facts: I fired it up yesterday, it quickly came online telling me it was 2004 and listed my local approaches, including a decommissioned NDB... The latter fact is an old DB, but the date bug underlined the fact the software is old. Not so much trying to be cheap as frugal, but I think it will go to the great shelf in the sky. 

(note: above is written with a lack of knowledge of Garmin Pilot; haven't tried it at all yet)

Thanks for any thoughts,

David

 

PS. Related question: as far as I've been able to determine, there is no device that lets you cross-load flight plans with the non-NXi G1000's. If I've missed this, please say. 

[LANCECASPER]

I have a Garmin Aera 760 and with a Garmin OnePak you get one portable database subscription included. If you really want Jepps you will have to buy a Jepp unlock ($2400 I think) for your G1000 - absolutely no need to do that - the Garmin nav data works fine. 

[Ragsf15e]

I also use the govt plates and garmin navdata.  It’s fine.  I use it in canada as well.  Ff on an ipad is also fine as a portable.  As a bonus, put ff on your phone to have a backup and to use for filing, checking weather, etc.

[PT20J]

THIS^^^^^^^is what I do also.

[Pinecone]

On option is to use Garmin Pilot on your iPad.  A more common interface to your G1000

That said, I use FF.  I also have an Aera 760 that is getting a docking station.  But not G1000. 

I have used Jepps in the past in paper and likeed them.  But Gov works find and is cheaper.

[EricJ]

By portable do you mean EFB?    If so, there are EFBs that use the government plates and charts, so all updates are free.   e.g., FltPln Go, Avare.   Maps and plates are georeferenced on both.

[Ragsf15e]

Sounds like you already bought an ipad, but it’s good to get one with internal gps.  If the model is cellular capable, then it has gps (you don’t need to have a cellular contract or connection for the gps to work).

[dkkim73]

25 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

Sounds like you already bought an ipad, but it’s good to get one with internal gps.  If the model is cellular capable, then it has gps (you don’t need to have a cellular contract or connection for the gps to work).

Yes, I did, with both (still need to find a good data plan, but GPS and Wifi work great). IIUC I can use it with the GTX 345R (Jeff at Mooney is checking to make sure it has an RF-lucent panel between the transponder in the tail and where I'll sit). Also have a recent Sentry which works nicely, though I may return it given all the various options and recommendation to use a more sensitive CO detector. 

When I said portable (to @EricJ's question above) I was thinking of a dedicated aviation GPS unit, e.g. an Aera or similar, with controlled firmware for a somewhat higher level of reliability than an iPad, where IMHO there will always be some higher risk of interactional bugs etc. I did not look at some of the other dedicated EFB options... I think those options mentioned are apps. Though TY for the point-out to Avare, since my phone runs an Android fork. 

BTW I did just buy a OnePak (from Garmin, so Garmin data and FliteCharts). Appreciate the inputs on the chart choices. That will give me the familiar govt charts on the G1000 as a fallback, whatever I go with externally. Also a DB subscription for an external GPS. 

Sounds like I should try Garmin Pilot to see how it feels vs. ForeFlight (the commonality point is a good one). If I had to choose right now, I am thinking the Aera would be a good choice. Oddly, lots of models mentioned but only two listed for sale on Garmin's site. 

Thanks,
David

 

[dkkim73]

When I went to redeem the DB purchase, it requires me to choose between Americas vs. US only (AOPA) airport directories, and also for terrain you can choose 30 vs 9+4.9 arc-second resolutions.

Is this purely a personal need/preference thing, or is there some subtle trade-off that comes with space or capability on the original G1000 units? (the plane is a 2009)

Wonky question, but trying to figure it out and figured someone else had more insight. Unclear if this is alterable later. 

David

[Ragsf15e]

1 hour ago, dkkim73 said:

Yes, I did, with both (still need to find a good data plan, but GPS and Wifi work great). IIUC I can use it with the GTX 345R (Jeff at Mooney is checking to make sure it has an RF-lucent panel between the transponder in the tail and where I'll sit). Also have a recent Sentry which works nicely, though I may return it given all the various options and recommendation to use a more sensitive CO detector. 

When I said portable (to @EricJ's question above) I was thinking of a dedicated aviation GPS unit, e.g. an Aera or similar, with controlled firmware for a somewhat higher level of reliability than an iPad, where IMHO there will always be some higher risk of interactional bugs etc. I did not look at some of the other dedicated EFB options... I think those options mentioned are apps. Though TY for the point-out to Avare, since my phone runs an Android fork. 

BTW I did just buy a OnePak (from Garmin, so Garmin data and FliteCharts). Appreciate the inputs on the chart choices. That will give me the familiar govt charts on the G1000 as a fallback, whatever I go with externally. Also a DB subscription for an external GPS. 

Sounds like I should try Garmin Pilot to see how it feels vs. ForeFlight (the commonality point is a good one). If I had to choose right now, I am thinking the Aera would be a good choice. Oddly, lots of models mentioned but only two listed for sale on Garmin's site. 

Thanks,
David

 

Personally I might just keep the Sentry.  Here’s why… yes, it’s probably overkill, but it’s got an internal battery, separate from the ship’s electrical system, and it provides ahrs for the ipad without needing anything from the airplane.  Also it’s tiny.  That being said, I haven’t bought one as a backup yet and my ipad connects to the gtx345 for ADSB and ahrs, but if you want belt and suspenders, consider keeping it.  The gtx345 ahrs doesn’t seem quite as solid as their pfds.

Personally, my ipad running ff has been 100% glitch free.  I’m usually not in a hot environment, but I left it in the sun once, overheated, pulled up my phone backup while the ipad cooled and all was fine.  My personal experience is that with a g1000,adsb, and an ipad, an aera is overkill, but clearly a lot of people like them, so there you go.

Edited November 27, 2023 by Ragsf15e

[RoundTwo]

Aera 760 wired in to GPS and transponder for FP transfers and traffic/terrain. BT connection to G3X to get ADAHRS info for synthetic vision for co-pilot. It’s ALMOST like having true ADAHRS for right seat.

Garmin Pilot on the iPad. I subscribe to the OnePak and that gives a free upgrade to GP Premium. On the OnePak, I get Dibs for the G3X, GTN, 760 and GNC255. The more Garmin devices you have, the more the OnePak benefits you.

[Marc_B]

++ on the OnePak + flite charts. I have an Aera 760 that I use for charts. Use it a lot for charts, traffic page near the airport, terrain in the mtns. 

[Pinecone]

57 minutes ago, RoundTwo said:

Aera 760 wired in to GPS and transponder for FP transfers and traffic/terrain. BT connection to G3X to get ADAHRS info for synthetic vision for co-pilot. It’s ALMOST like having true ADAHRS for right seat.

That is what I am going with.  AERA 760 in dock on the right panel.  Fully self contained if issues with main avionics.

So G-5 will have 4 - 5 hour battery and internal GPS.  AERA has battery and internal GPS and AHRS.  iPad (I have both FF and GP installed) has its own battery and semi AHRS.

And seriously considering a IBS for the G3X and one GPS/nav/com.

[dkkim73]

Does anyone know if it is possible to do a wired connection (RS-232) from one of the G1000 boxes to an Aera cradle for flight plan cross-loading? (to get around the lack of Flight Stream support)

I realize others are discussing G3's and GTN's, so I might be conflating things. 

D

[LANCECASPER]

7 hours ago, dkkim73 said:

When I went to redeem the DB purchase, it requires me to choose between Americas vs. US only (AOPA) airport directories, and also for terrain you can choose 30 vs 9+4.9 arc-second resolutions.

Is this purely a personal need/preference thing, or is there some subtle trade-off that comes with space or capability on the original G1000 units? (the plane is a 2009)

Wonky question, but trying to figure it out and figured someone else had more insight. Unclear if this is alterable later. 

David

The terrain is dependent on whether you have the Synthetic Vision (SVT) unlock on the G1000, for which you need higher rezolution.

[RoundTwo]

1 hour ago, dkkim73 said:

Does anyone know if it is possible to do a wired connection (RS-232) from one of the G1000 boxes to an Aera cradle for flight plan cross-loading? (to get around the lack of Flight Stream support)

I realize others are discussing G3's and GTN's, so I might be conflating things. 

D

If there isn’t an available MapMx protocol available, it’s a simple task to double up, or parallel a connection (one way only) GPS TX to Aera RX. This is what I had to do from the GTN because it only allows one MapMX connection and that was used between the GTN and G3X.

[LANCECASPER]

20 hours ago, dkkim73 said:

Yes, I did, with both (still need to find a good data plan, but GPS and Wifi work great). IIUC I can use it with the GTX 345R (Jeff at Mooney is checking to make sure it has an RF-lucent panel between the transponder in the tail and where I'll sit).

I did that mod to mine a couple years ago after I bought it. I'm only a few miles from the factory. I think I have an extra piece of the ABS you can have to do the RF-friendly panel behind the carpet in the baggage area. If Jeff needs it, Mike K has my number. I also added a passive repeater between the GTX-345 bluetooth antenna area and the cabin and they were ok with it. Mike and Jeff have both seen that as well. My device doesn't drop bluetooth now.

They had never seen the LHS system until they installed one on mine.

[Fly Boomer]

14 hours ago, dkkim73 said:

Does anyone know if it is possible to do a wired connection (RS-232) from one of the G1000 boxes to an Aera cradle for flight plan cross-loading? (to get around the lack of Flight Stream support)

I realize others are discussing G3's and GTN's, so I might be conflating things. 

D

This might be relevant:

https://mooneyspace.com/topic/35377-mapmx-question/