Electronic checklist

[Rick Junkin]

5 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

Also hard to use before you start the engine.

The G3X comes on with the master switch, so it’s powered up before engine start. In a 14V system a GAD 27 Electronic Adapter Unit is a required installation to keep the voltage up during engine start, but the GAD 27 isn’t necessary in a 28V system because the voltage doesn’t drop below the minimum for the G3X during engine start.

At any rate, I do my before-power cockpit flow and then turn the master on. I’ve configured it to bring the G3X up in split screen with the power-up checklist displayed to confirm my before-power flow, then on to the engine start checklist.

After only 25 hours behind the G3X I’m finding the checklist page very useful and user-friendly.

Cheers,
Rick

[ttflyer]

On 11/15/2023 at 9:27 AM, wombat said:

Also, not sure why someone would want to use the electronics for checklists....  

NASA did a study with professional flight crews and found they made about 3 checklist errors per flight using paper checklists and about 0.2 errors per flight using electronic checklists...  I use them as a professional pilot and when I go to the simulator (which does not have our electronic checklists) I feel like a fish out of water.  Paper is clearly inferior to electronic checklists in every way...

That being said, it's been pointed out in this forum before that electronic checklist usage might be better suited to pro pilots then your average GA pilot.  At the end of the day, the main thing is that you are using a checklist.  If paper is better / easier for you, that's what you should use.  For me, electronic checklists are VASTLY superior.  But that's the way I was trained...

[Hank]

3 hours ago, ttflyer said:

NASA did a study with professional flight crews and found they made about 3 checklist errors per flight using paper checklists and about 0.2 errors per flight using electronic checklists...  I use them as a professional pilot and when I go to the simulator (which does not have our electronic checklists) I feel like a fish out of water.  Paper is clearly inferior to electronic checklists in every way...

Your large commercial cockpit probably has a separate display for the checklists, rather than using either the GPS or the PFD, and losing track of where you are as you're running the checklist to assure that cruise power is set, cowl flaps retracted, etc., to say nothing of the Descent checklist. 

[wombat]

20 hours ago, Fly Boomer said:

I was comparing your checklists to mine and, for pattern work, it looks like you set WOT for takeoff (I believe that should be 38 inches), then you pull back to 35 inches at 500 feet, then pull back to 20 inches at pattern altitude (and expect 105 knots).  Then, "middle of downwind" you power up again to 27 inches and, finally, when abeam the numbers, you throttle back to 15 inches, and start down.  I have a feeling there is a typo in here somewhere.  Is the 27 inches supposed to be 17 inches?

No, with the gear down I need 27" to maintain level flight at 105 knots.   That seems high to me too.   

 

[ttflyer]

9 hours ago, Hank said:

Your large commercial cockpit probably has a separate display for the checklists, rather than using either the GPS or the PFD, and losing track of where you are as you're running the checklist to assure that cruise power is set, cowl flaps retracted, etc., to say nothing of the Descent checklist. 

Like I said above, I use the GTN750 and have the checklist easily accessible on the knob.  One click between map, checklist and traffic.  The 750 is the only screen we have (right now) and it works perfectly in the Mooney.

But I also said paper might be better for the average GA pilot and the main thing is that you are actually using a checklist..  Is what I said... 

[Rick Junkin]

10 hours ago, Hank said:

Your large commercial cockpit probably has a separate display for the checklists, rather than using either the GPS or the PFD, and losing track of where you are as you're running the checklist to assure that cruise power is set, cowl flaps retracted, etc., to say nothing of the Descent checklist. 

This begs a question or two - how long does it take to run a checklist, and will you lose track of where you are in that amount of time? What difference do you see between diverting your attention to a paper checklist to run the checks, and flipping to a checklist page on a display and then immediately back to the page you were on? I ask because I had the same perspective as you until I started using the checklist on my panel. I've found I'm able to more accurately, quickly and efficiently run the electronic checklist with no loss of situation awareness. My technique is to run flows for each phase of flight and then use the checklist for verification, so if you are using a different technique your results may be different but I suspect your results will be similar to mine.

My key to using the electronic checklist was to take the time to produce a concise checklist that only includes the steps I need to accomplish in the order of my flow, with no extraneous words or unnecessary notes that would slow me down or make the checklist "choppy". This took a significant amount of time and revision, and I'm still tweaking things as I identify improvements while using it. I expect that to be a continuous process at least for a bit yet. This includes all of the emergency and abnormal procedures, which I "chair fly" in the cockpit every time I load new nav data.

I've also used the checklist function in Foreflight and found it ok but not as good as the G3X checklist is working for me. Part of that is because I replicated the POH normal and emergency checklists in Foreflight with all of the same verbiage and all of the warnings, cautions and notes, which makes it a bit cumbersome to use. I still have all of that detail in Foreflight so I can go to that checklist if I have a refresher-type question after a longer layoff from flying. I also review it in detail at least once a year, and always before a flight review or IPC. And it's always available in the cockpit if I should need or want to reference it.

For the OP and other folks trying out an electronic checklist in their own airplane for the first time I recommend starting out with creating a checklist akin to a Checkmate card rather than replicating the POH checklists, regardless what type of electronic checklist you choose. I find a concise checklist that prompts me to check things I am already familiar with is gold, and much more useful than one full of detail.

However, if you're flying a new-to-you airplane that detail may be useful and necessary so something closer to the POH may be appropriate to start out with. That's part of the beauty of electronic checklists - you can easily tailor them as you see fit to best suit your need and have them available for immediate use.

Cheers,
Rick

[hammdo]

MIRA allows you to do voice activated check lists on IPad. I have it and testing it out…

https://www.miracheck.com/

-Don

[chriscalandro]

So we’ve gone from hank thinking you can’t use ASSB traffic and look out the window at the same time to using an electronic checklist in a display or navigator will get you lost?

 

I’m not sure how this guy manages to stand up and brush his teeth at the same time. 

[Hank]

3 hours ago, Rick Junkin said:

My key to writing my checklist was to take the time to produce a concise checklist that only includes the steps I need to accomplish in the order of my flow, with no extraneous words or unnecessary notes that would slow me down or make the checklist "choppy". . . . This includes all of the emergency and abnormal procedures.

. . . And the Owners Manual is always available in the cockpit if I should need or want to reference it.

. . . I find a concise checklist that prompts me to check things I am already familiar with is gold, and much more useful than one full of detail.

This was my approach writing my paper checklist. Plus I modified the original to include equipment installed (like having a single Avionics Master switch instead of turning each item on or off at a particular step).

Everything was edited to fit a half page of paper, with bug, bold headings. But information is sparse; as a student, I had extensive Emergency Procedures, with color-coded headings for the 172, but my Sextion V. Emergency Procedures is a whole two pages, and the entire Engine Fire procedure is to close the air vents . . .

I also put the Performance Tables there, so that I dont have to flip through the old, yellowing booklet to set or change power.

But I'll do me, and you do you. I thought our similar approach was interesting, though.

[midlifeflyer]

21 hours ago, Pinecone said:

Paper works better for flow segments.  Where you do a left to right high, right to left low and check the position of every switch, then a quick look down the paper to catch anything you miss.

I do the same (although I don't look down ). 

[Tim-37419]

19 hours ago, Hank said:

losing track of where you are as you're running the checklist

@Hank I feel so much better knowing it’s not just me who does that 

[RoundTwo]

18 hours ago, hammdo said:

MIRA allows you to do voice activated check lists on IPad. I have it and testing it out…

https://www.miracheck.com/

-Don

“Slide in to see her…”? Who writes this stuff?

[midlifeflyer]

2 hours ago, RoundTwo said:

“Slide in to see her…”? Who writes this stuff?

 Mira is a female name and Jeff has always treated "Mira" as a female. Think "Siri" for the cockpit. The slide in/out is funny but descriptive of iOS split screen capability.

[Fly Boomer]

On 11/18/2023 at 10:00 AM, hammdo said:

MIRA allows you to do voice activated check lists on IPad. I have it and testing it out…

https://www.miracheck.com/

-Don

Just got it.  Been looking for something like this -- I have been wanting a completely hands-free voice-only solution that waits for confirmation from me that I have completed an item (not a timer).  If it works like the video shows, I will get some use from it.  Thanks.