1st New owner Annual Complete!

[kgbpost]

Well, I can rest a bit as the completeion of the 1st annual after 1yr of ownership of 800MS is now complete and i'm thrilled! I took it to Arapahoe Aero at APA and I told Scott to 'fix everything you find'. I had a rather long list of nitpicking items that we cleaned up, but other than that there were no big suprises! Yea! What a relief. A clean bill of health from a MSC I respect is real peace of mind.

I wont bore anyone with the list, but the only 'major' items we did was, speedbrakes overhauled, the 4-yr magneto inspection, new brake linings and master cylinder rebuild, seeping fuel sumps (turned out to be leaking at the plate rivets, was well within limits in the service manual, but we fixed it anyway). Engine pumped 76/80+ on all barrels, oil analysis remains clean. Gear need some tweaking but nothing serious. TIT probe was indeed reading 50 low and we replaced that. Everything else was minor in nature, but we fixed it all.

There was one major suprise that everyone else missed including the prebuy and another MSC...The M20M MX manual, 4-00-00, Titled Airworthiness Limitations, has a replacement schedule of time limited parts. The very last item on the list is the Vacuum System 'Check Valve Manifolds'...it states that they must be replaced '10 yrs from the date of manufacture'. Therefore if this limitation is exceeded essentially the aircraft is limited to VFR operations only. The replacement cost quoted was in the neighborhood of 1,700. I elected to not replace the check valves as it was my intent to do a major avionics upgrade if the annual came in reasonably low, which it did.

Next stop is Alamosa to install an Aspen ProPDF with synthetic vision, a lifesaver attitude gyro, the TAS-605 active traffic system by Avidyne, and a PMA-8000B audio panel to replace the KMA-24 and antiquated intercom system. I'm so excited. I really feel like once i get this done my 'dream airplane' is complete!

I can't say how thrilled I am to own a Bravo. I know the fuel specifics aren't the best, but for a Colorado pilot it's exactly what the doctor ordered. 270HP to FL210 and the long body are two things I'm not willing to compromise, period. I feel I chose wisely...got that warm fuzzy feeling now.

On a side note, while my bird was in the shop, I got into a Super Decathlon courtesy of Ed Nelson at Sidney Aviation. Wow! I'm not quite comfortable enough in it enough yet to start aerobatic training, but that will come. I did learn that I have two things dangling from the end of my legs called 'feet', and I need to learn to use them! What a hoot though...its so fun to fly that thing.

Anyway, to address the M20M annual cost, my 1st one got me for about 10. No small amount, probably what I expected really. From here on out I would expect to spend somewhere in the 5-7 range to annual it. Of course there are time limited items which will inflate that figure, but I don't see how to annual an airplane this complex for less than 5 and do it right. I do feel strongly though that my hiring Arapahoe Aero to maintain my baby is an investment that will pay for itself in the long run. Real professional folks, I'm impressed.

Oh and a shout out to Jimmy and David at AAA. Thanks guys!

Frequency change approved...Good Day!

[blacknchrome]

Glad to hear another happy Bravo owner.

It's interesting what you say about the check valve manifolds, as I don't think it is very well known.  We replaced the part in our Bravo recently after having a vacuum issue and I found a few articles from Parker Hannifin (I think) about the useful life of this piece.  There was a nasty crash or two in other makes because of this failure...having two pumps does no good if the check valve fails, so it's pretty critical for those flying IFR!

[2jetman]

I’m a new TLS Bravo owner this year and I’ve not yet experienced my first annual yet. I’ve been saving up my pennies… Dollars, so I can be more prepared for the unknown. I had a very extensive pre-buy done and the previous owner spent just over 20k getting everything up to par for the sale. I fly mine in the upper teens and lower 20’s 90% of the time. I can say I’m extremely impressed with the performance of this little bird. It’s also my first Mooney experience. I previously flew a V-tail Bonanza, which is also an awesome plane but is very limited compared to the Bravo when it comes to high altitude cross-country flying. Glad to hear your enjoying yours as well. 

[bbillb]

What year are your Bravo's that have the "check valve manifolds"??

I have a 2000 model Bravo and have never seen the part you refer to.  I also have the 1999 Service and Maintenance Manual and it does't say anything about replacing the "check valve manifolds"..  Could these items have been removed in later model Bravo's??  In my manual the vacuum system Figure 37-1 does not show any check valve manifolds.

 

Thanks

Bob

[johnggreen]

Bob,

Just read this post and called my mechanic who pulled the maintenance manual on my 2000 Bravo.  We do, indeed, have check valve manifold because we have two vacuum pumps, but my manual does not list it as a time limited part either.

My mechanic maintains that since my aircraft is flown part 91, that it is completely optional as to whether or not it is replaced at the time limit shown in kgbpost's post.

Not meaning to bitch, kgb, but sure wish everyone would sign off with their name.  These monikers are confusing, hard to remember and mighty unpersonal.

My daddy always told me to shake a man's hand, look him in the eye, and tell him your name.

How do you do?  I'm John Green and pleased to make your acquaintenance.

[Skywarrior]

At the bottom of his post:

Brian A Postle - 1991 M20M TLS/Bravo N800MS "Mooney MAGIC" LMO

[johnggreen]

Brian,

Sorry I missed your name.  Thanks.  Now, hello "Skywarrior", nice to meet you, and your name is?  Oh, never mind, I'm kind of apathetic about the whole thing.

Jgreen

[kgbpost]

No worries John. Sorry I missed the replies. It would be nice if MS would email you when a reply is made to a post you've made. Believe it or not I don't check this board daily. Wish I had time to but I don't.

Anyway, The Mooney Service and Maintenance Manual, revised 2006, section 4-00-00 - Airworthiness Limitations - Model M20M reads as follows:

"4-10-00 - Time limited components; It is recommended that replacement of components should be accomplished not later than the specified period of operation for that component or in accordance with the manufacturers service data or airworthiness directives."

"4-10-01 - Replacement Schedule, Item; Check Valve Manifolds, Check Valves and Regulator - Replace Time Limits; 10 Years from the date of maunufacture (date of manufacture encoded in serial number - refer to Parker service literature)."

It was of the opinion of my AI after consultation with the Denver FSDO that an airworhtiness limitation in the service and maintenance manual is a mandatory complince issue, same as an AD...end of story.

What my AI was willing to do was sign the annual off with an open discrepancy allowing me to operate Day VFR only, since its allowable per the required equipment list in the AFM, provided the instrument panel is placarded as such and an entry is made in the logbook detailing the restriction as well.

I flew 800MS to ALS in said conditions where the entire vacuum system is being removed to install an ASPEN1000PFD along with a mid-continent lifesaver gyro. Thats how I remedied the situation, it just moved my avionics upgrade to the front burner thats all. I was just glad there were no other suprises.

Brian

[kgbpost]

The 2nd annual since my purchase of N800MS was recently completed at Arapahoe Aero MSC. I'm pleased to report it was another rather trouble free year. The only single MX downtime I experienced was when my Planepower LW stater blew itself up unexpectedly. Luckily that happened at my home base, LMO, and so i just shoved it back into the hanger and dropped off the keys at Air West, who had the starter replaced the next day, thanks guys.

 

The annual itself again didn't uncover any major discrepancies, and as usual, I told Scott to fix everything period. We elected to overhaul the prop on time in service as a precaution. It was done by Rocky Mountain Propellers, and it was dynamically balanced by Arapahoe Aero. I must say that I was pleasantly suprised with the noticable improvement in vibration. I mean it's almost 'turbine smooth' now...Lovin it. We also replaced the alternator belts and prop deice contact brushes while the prop was off. This was the first big AMU part of the annual.

 

The second big AMU part of the annual still has my "manifold pressure" up a bit. I reported that the fuel pressure indication was erratic at times...and they determined that my fuel pressure transducer was Tango Uniform. They contacted Mooney and were quoted...Are you sitting down???...1,652 AMU for a replacement fuel pressure transducer! Oh yea, and they were six weeks out too. Soooo, we elected to try and find an alternative and we ended up with one. Actually to be fair to my MSC here, I took it upon myself to find it. It came from another MSC which will go unnamed, although i will say I see it Raved about on the site all the time. It was 600 AMU and change. When we recieved it I was told it just wasn't going to work, non TSO'd, whole different animal, etc. So we checked to see if the unnamed MSC would be willing to take it back minus a restocking charge, of course, and I would eat the shipping to boot. Said unnamed MSC would not return emails or phone calls. So to make a long story short we ended up buying the one from Mooney, which somehow magically found one that was ready to ship. The unusable part was returned to unnamed MSC with a note, and again no response. I take full responsibility for that snafu, but Boo Hiss to unnamed MSC. There is no excuse for not being willing to return correspondence to say 'no, I won't give you your money back'. So due to a partially self inflicted hiccup, I now have a fully function fuel pressure guage that all said and done cost...oh forget it, it's shameful. Anyway, I guess it's now fodder for the Beechcraft forum.

 

Anyway, other than the two biggies, just some progressive stuff, hydrostatic O2 test, some gear hardware, some tail tightening, the ever persistent fuel quantity indicators, but it all adds up. I ended spending about 6,900 AMU on this annual, so not bad. I did not include the prop overhaul in that figure as I elected to do it, it wasn't required..and I didn't include the fuel pressure fiasco either, that's just from another world. Every once in a while you just get kicked in the shorts and you gotta take it like a man, that's how I rationalize it.

 

I will say that I'm thrilled with my Bravo. It was a bit of a sleeper when I found it. It had been inactive for a spell, which was well documented... but after 3 consecutive open checkbook MSC annuals I think I've got a real winner, my families little Air Force One if you will. And although we've had clean up a bunch of little stuff, the ship has been incredibly reliable and I've had no big ticket downtime yet. I'm looking forward to seeing a whole lot of country go by at 200kts this summer!

 

I would like to say thanks to Arapahoe Aero. They are in my opinion a first rate shop and a pleasure to deal with. Give them a try, I highly recommend them.

 

Cheers, Brian 

[aviatoreb]

Thanks for the report.

Why not name the MSC that treated you poorly? Product feedback like that is one way we help each other here.

[kgbpost]

Thanks for the report.

Why not name the MSC that treated you poorly? Product feedback like that is one way we help each other here.

I'll PM it. I'm just afraid the crooked SOB would try to sue me if I posted it for all to see.

 

I don't doubt that this shop treats their own customers fairly, but apparently doesn't play well with others including others MSCs. 

[Awful_Charlie]

In its history, I see my Bravo spend a lot of its time at Arapahoe for maintenance.  They seem to have done well from the current state, although they're not so convenient for me to use from here.  They were helpful on the phone when I was doing the pre-buy and I had a few questions to ask them, and even sent me the work pack summaries that they held on file, despite that the aircraft was 1000's of miles away, and unlikely to return to them.