Neutralizing Rodent Urine

[RoundTwo]

Is there anything special I need to do, or avoid doing when cleaning out rodent urine? I have found many articles through Google that suggest a diluted bleach solution, but I’m not crazy about that on aluminum. For cat urine, and skunk spray, I’ve used hydrogen peroxide, baking soda and dish soap solution to attack the organics and any acids. Is there any concern about Dawn dish soap and aluminum?

Are there any silver bullet products you can recommend?

Thanks,

Chuck

[EricJ]

1 hour ago, RoundTwo said:

Is there anything special I need to do, or avoid doing when cleaning out rodent urine? I have found many articles through Google that suggest a diluted bleach solution, but I’m not crazy about that on aluminum. For cat urine, and skunk spray, I’ve used hydrogen peroxide, baking soda and dish soap solution to attack the organic sand any acids? Is there any concern about Dawn dish soap and aluminum?

Are there any silver bullet products you can recommend?

Thanks,

Chuck

Dawn dish soap is not good for aluminum.    Soaps that are good for nearly anything else are typically bad for aluminum.   Many of the aviation-specific or aluminum-specific cleaners are fine.    Searching some place like aircraft spruce for 'soap' usually gives a decent selection.

That said, mineral spirits would probably work, or if you have to use a soap like Dawn, just rinse the crap out of it so that there is no soap left at all, which may be hard to do if there are seams/crevices, etc.   Scotch brite pads work well for scrubbing on aluminum.

[RoundTwo]

15 minutes ago, EricJ said:

Dawn dish soap is not good for aluminum.    Soaps that are good for nearly anything else are typically bad for aluminum.   Many of the aviation-specific or aluminum-specific cleaners are fine.    Searching some place like aircraft spruce for 'soap' usually gives a decent selection.

That said, mineral spirits would probably work, or if you have to use a soap like Dawn, just rinse the crap out of it so that there is no soap left at all, which may be hard to do if there are seams/crevices, etc.   Scotch brite pads work well for scrubbing on aluminum.

Thanks. I’m glad I asked.

[LANCECASPER]

2 hours ago, RoundTwo said:

Is there anything special I need to do, or avoid doing when cleaning out rodent urine? I have found many articles through Google that suggest a diluted bleach solution, but I’m not crazy about that on aluminum. For cat urine, and skunk spray, I’ve used hydrogen peroxide, baking soda and dish soap solution to attack the organic sand any acids? Is there any concern about Dawn dish soap and aluminum?

Are there any silver bullet products you can recommend?

Thanks,

Chuck

The Mooney Factory Service Center uses a baking soda solution

[Pinecone]

Urine is acidic and water soluble.  So in general, you want to use water to clean.  Baking soda woudl neutralize the acid.  So what the factory does makes sense chemically.

Not all detergents are harmful to Al.  And detergents lower the surface tension making the water do a better job of removing residues.  So a smalll amout of an Al safe detergent would make it work a bit better.

[A64Pilot]

18 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

The Mooney Factory Service Center uses a baking soda solution

Believe it or not but ammonia is kinder to aluminum than baking soda or so I’ve heard, I am not a chemist though but I  think concentration plays into it.

This stuff for defoliating cotton is so acidic that a mix of baking soda and water will foam if put on the airplane soaked in it

https://nufarm.com/uscrop/product/cottonquik/

Most crop dusters wash the airplane throughly with soap and hot water after spraying it, but I’ve been told some use ammonia to neutralize the acid first.

In my opinion pretty much anything isn’t as bad as the urine and a good rinse surely will remove pretty much all of the Dawn or baking soda, but I think soap, not detergent is the safest answer. I don’t think a tiny bit of baking soda left behind is going to do much actually.

https://www.nycoproducts.com/resources/blog/simple-science-the-difference-between-soap-and-detergent/#:~:text=Soaps are made from natural,synthetic%2C man-made derivatives.

[Pinecone]

Baking soda is a milder base than ammonia.  But ammonia would offgas over time.

Either way, rinse well with water.

[Fly Boomer]

13 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

Believe it or not but ammonia is kinder to aluminum than baking soda or so I’ve heard, I am not a chemist though but I  think concentration plays into it.

I have not done it, so this is just a thought experiment, but I'm always a fan of good old water combined with mechanical scrubbing.  Depending on the surface, mechanical scrubbing can range from microfiber to Scotch-Brite, but all the cleaners, abrasives, petroleum distillates, soaps, detergents, lotions, and potions either have a non-neutral pH, or they are not good for other nearby parts and structures, or they leave something undesirable behind.  I would especially avoid using anything with a non-neutral pH on aluminum that has to be "neutralized" with another non-neutral pH substance.

[A64Pilot]

I believe to clean a surfactant because it breaks waters surface tension is very helpful. I believe most soap is slightly alkaline so it has a slight acid neutralizing effect, and if rinse with soft water does rinse real well, hard water I think leaves a soap scum.

Really think we are overthinking this, that as long as you don’t go after it with something very caustic like drain cleaner you will be fine. Dawn may be very slightly corrosive, but I bet it’s likely the number one product people use to wash their airplanes with. I mean rain as it’s usually acidic has an effect, just don’t think it amounts to much though.

 

[glbtrottr]

Urea is atrocious and sometimes a pain to remove the scent regardless of material.

I’ve had to restore all sorts of unimaginable projects - none of the commercial stuff does a good job. Petco’s offerings are useless.

The one outstanding solution I’ve found is a mail order product called ODORXIT.

Price but read the reviews.

I’ve bleached surfaces, used ammonia, blah blah blah - but odorxit gets rid of the smell once and for all.

[RoundTwo]

3 minutes ago, glbtrottr said:

Urea is atrocious and sometimes a pain to remove the scent regardless of material.

I’ve had to restore all sorts of unimaginable projects - none of the commercial stuff does a good job. Petco’s offerings are useless.

The one outstanding solution I’ve found is a mail order product called ODORXIT.

Price but read the reviews.

I’ve bleached surfaces, used ammonia, blah blah blah - but odorxit gets rid of the smell once and for all.

Luckily I’m not dealing with odor but just want to eliminate any potentially corrosive substance. 

[PT20J]

I wonder if this would work. https://www.crcindustries.com/battery-cleaner-with-acid-indicator-11-wt-oz/. Anyone know if 2-Butoxyethanol is safe for aluminum?

[RoundTwo]

Spent a good amount of time today before it got too hot, scrubbing the floor panel u dear the back seat. Mineral spirits was the cleaner of choice because it was an oily residue. Using a spray bottle of mineral spirits and a tooth brush, I was able to remove 35 years of buildup in the corners and seams. Unfortunately, I did find one unpleasant surprise that will need some focused attention. This is the attachment point for the cabin to the main spar on the copilot side. The bolt goes through the spar and into the threaded boss on the lower attachment point of the cage.

 Evidently this software doesn’t like it when photos are taken upside down, regardless of how they’re appearing on the phone.

[PT20J]

Tension bolt. Those are the ones you remove to run a magnet into the lower tube to check for rust. 

[RoundTwo]

10 minutes ago, PT20J said:

Tension bolt. Those are the ones you remove to run a magnet into the lower tube to check for rust. 

Thank you. That’s a much better description than what I was coming up with. 

[LANCECASPER]

1 hour ago, RoundTwo said:

Spent a good amount of time today before it got too hot, scrubbing the floor panel u dear the back seat. Mineral spirits was the cleaner of choice because it was an oily residue. Using a spray bottle of mineral spirits and a tooth brush, I was able to remove 35 years of buildup in the corners and seams. Unfortunately, I did find one unpleasant surprise that will need some focused attention. This is the attachment point for the cabin to the main spar on the copilot side. The bolt goes through the spar and into the threaded boss on the lower attachment point of the cage.

 Evidently this software doesn’t like it when photos are taken upside down, regardless of how they’re appearing on the phone.

If it was me I would hold off any more until an insurance adjuster gets a chance to look at this. The deeper you get you may find more.

[A64Pilot]

Insurance will cover corrosion?

[LANCECASPER]

4 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

Insurance will cover corrosion?

In some cases, Yes.

 

[A64Pilot]

On 8/22/2023 at 12:58 PM, PT20J said:

I wonder if this would work. https://www.crcindustries.com/battery-cleaner-with-acid-indicator-11-wt-oz/. Anyone know if 2-Butoxyethanol is safe for aluminum?

I think as urine is water based that a water based cleaner would be called for. I’d get in there and clean it out with soapy water and flush it using a wet vac to suck the water out. I think I’d be tempted to treat the rust with a rust “killer” I’ve had very good luck with it on tube steel structures and 4140 steel main spar caps etc for surface corrosion, it really does stop corrosion.

[A64Pilot]

1 minute ago, LANCECASPER said:

In some cases, Yes.

 

That’s astonishing I’ve never heard of it covering corrosion and think it extraordinarily odd, it’s like covering engine wear. Many, many insurance covered aircraft are scrapped from corrosion and I have never heard of it being covered, whether it being mouse caused or not.

[LANCECASPER]

1 minute ago, A64Pilot said:

That’s astonishing I’ve never heard of it covering corrosion and think it extraordinarily odd, it’s like covering engine wear. Many, many insurance covered aircraft are scrapped from corrosion and I have never heard of it being covered, whether it being mouse caused or not.

Read the quoted post and you will see why it was covered.

[A64Pilot]

Sorry, external damages clause tells me nothing, thankfully I don’t know much about insurance 

[LANCECASPER]

The damage happened due to an external cause, the mice.