BasicMed Changes in 2024 FAA Reauthorization

[M20F]

1 minute ago, Pinecone said:

What exactly is part of the 3rd class, or even 2nd or 1st class exams that has anything to do with flying at 18000 feet??????????

How about ABSOLUTELY nothing.

 

Those medicals involve a specialized professional who is going to apply more stringent requirements to disqualify folks.  We all know the AME who passes everyone but even those guys/girls draw the line.  
 
Basic Med is an internet form with quite literally no requirements around it.  You can shop all you want for a signature and you will get it.  There are a lot of people getting meds that would never in a million years be qualified for a 3rd class.  I am fine with that to a certain extent but think requiring a bit more to operate in the FLs where probably less then 1% of GA goes regularly is a reasonable ask. 

 .  

[GeeBee]

15 minutes ago, 201Steve said:

What airlines are cruising around at 25k and below?

Above FL180 the cockpit routine changes markedly in most air carrier aircraft. The checklists are all done, the exterior lights are secured, on long range flights the relief pilot is dismissed to rest and at night most crews turn on the white flood lights. I don't want to admit it, and I hated it, but many break out the newspapers in violation of company rules. IOW they operate like there is no one else is there because it is positive control airspace.

[midlifeflyer]

4 minutes ago, M20F said:

Those medicals involve a specialized professional who is going to apply more stringent requirements to disqualify folks.  We all know the AME who passes everyone but even those guys/girls draw the line.  
 
Basic Med is an internet form with quite literally no requirements around it.  You can shop all you want for a signature and you will get it.  There are a lot of people getting meds that would never in a million years be qualified for a 3rd class.  I am fine with that to a certain extent but think requiring a bit more to operate in the FLs where probably less then 1% of GA goes regularly is a reasonable ask. 

 .  

That seems familiar. Hmmm....

Oh yeah, those were the same arguments the BasiMed naysayers made before it was adopted.  To your point, however, while the DOT study published in 2021 concluded that

This study could not detect a significant overall difference in aviation safety outcomes, such as accident rates or ORs between BasicMed pilots and pilots holding third-class medical certificates.

It did caution that, "given the study’s limitations, generalizations should not be made that because significant differences were not detected, no differences exist."

So there's always room for belief as opposed to knowledge. 

[M20F]

9 minutes ago, midlifeflyer said:

 

So there's always room for belief as opposed to knowledge. 

Public opinion though works firmly on belief.  We ended up with the 1500hr rule was knee jerk reaction, fixed nothing, and made things worse.  
 
As a lawyer I would think you would appreciate that logic rarely finds its way into regulations. 
 
Get a few folks keeling over in a plane with a basic med and it will get gutted.  Reasonable limitations help prevent that from happening.  We are also talking about the smallest portion of GA which is piston aircraft in the FLs.  

[midlifeflyer]

4 minutes ago, M20F said:

Public opinion though works firmly on belief.  We ended up with the 1500hr rule was knee jerk reaction, fixed nothing, and made things worse.  
 
As a lawyer I would think you would appreciate that logic rarely finds its way into regulations. 
 
Get a few folks keeling over in a plane with a basic med and it will get gutted.  Reasonable limitations help prevent that from happening.  We are also talking about the smallest portion of GA which is piston aircraft in the FLs.  

They do and they don't. But that's exactly why I said what I did. 

[M20F]

4 minutes ago, midlifeflyer said:

They do and they don't. But that's exactly why I said what I did. 

Spoken like a true lawyer!

[GeeBee]

Logic has nothing to do with ALPA, their lobbying efforts and Congressional power. 

The professional pilot class does not want you above F180 and that is who is going to win the lobbying battle. EOS.

 

[midlifeflyer]

2 hours ago, M20F said:

Spoken like a true lawyer!

Just means we look at things individually rather than make broad judgements. Bad habit, I know. 

[Pinecone]

4 hours ago, M20F said:

Those medicals involve a specialized professional who is going to apply more stringent requirements to disqualify folks.  We all know the AME who passes everyone but even those guys/girls draw the line.  
 
Basic Med is an internet form with quite literally no requirements around it.  You can shop all you want for a signature and you will get it.  There are a lot of people getting meds that would never in a million years be qualified for a 3rd class.  I am fine with that to a certain extent but think requiring a bit more to operate in the FLs where probably less then 1% of GA goes regularly is a reasonable ask.  .  

Except there is NOTHING in the exam that deals with breathing or tolerance to altitude.  There are NO REQUIREMENTS in the medical exam.  The AME has nothing to base any opinion on that area.

My PCP does a basic pulmonary function test every year on me.  HE knows more about my lung capacity and possible obstructions to breathing that any AME I have ever seen.

[Pinecone]

4 hours ago, GeeBee said:

Above FL180 the cockpit routine changes markedly in most air carrier aircraft. The checklists are all done, the exterior lights are secured, on long range flights the relief pilot is dismissed to rest and at night most crews turn on the white flood lights. I don't want to admit it, and I hated it, but many break out the newspapers in violation of company rules. IOW they operate like there is no one else is there because it is positive control airspace.

But how many of them are in the 18000 - FL250 range for cruise?

[Parker_Woodruff]

17 hours ago, Evan said:

Underwriters don't like unknowns. Basic Med has been an unknown since its inception. With more data proving that it isn't any more dangerous than a 3rd class, I hope conversations and speculation of increased premiums will die. 

@Parker_Woodruff could speak to it more but my understanding is that the "horror" stories you hear about frequent often are combining a factor of older age of 70+ and then add in basic med. I know of a lot of people only on BM with no difference in premium. 

Most underwriting companies are fine with BasicMed.  But some start requiring a 3rd class or more advanced medical certificate upon reaching ages such as 75.  Sometimes this is even required once per year, even if the certificate is good for 2 years with the FAA.

[GeeBee]

1 hour ago, Pinecone said:

But how many of them are in the 18000 - FL250 range for cruise?

If you pay attention to the commuters as well as the jet STARs, in particular in the NE region you will find a lot. It is not uncommon  going into LGA or JFK to be crossing RIC at FL250 or lower. It is a common complaint how early in the NE ATC gets traffic down but they need to for departures. So yeah, particularly in your part of the world a lot of traffic in the 20's. In the evening they get them down early to allow NAT traffic to pass overhead.

[skykrawler]

Here goes.....pilots that had a 'class' medical with special issuance can go to basic med.  These pilots are no longer required to jump through the hoops required by Ohh City for the special issuance.   This could be cardio, diabetes or whatever might kill you.    This is likely the reason for the limitation(s).

I have a friend with an Aerostar (pressurized) who is now on basic med and faces the altitude restriction.

[M20F]

2 hours ago, Pinecone said:

Except there is NOTHING in the exam that deals with breathing or tolerance to altitude.  There are NO REQUIREMENTS in the medical exam.  The AME has nothing to base any opinion on that area.

My PCP does a basic pulmonary function test every year on me.  HE knows more about my lung capacity and possible obstructions to breathing that any AME I have ever seen.

Yes but I smoke crack and beat my wife.  So I don’t have a PCP.  I just hustle an emergent care doctor to sign my basic med form.

What you do and what basic med allows for are two wildly differing things.  

[M20F]

30 minutes ago, Evan said:

Smoking crack? That’s a bit of a stretch.
 

A study not to long ago found a good amount of applicants on a medical withhold information.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/we-need-to-change-the-system-that-keeps-pilots-from-seeking-mental-health-care/?amp=true

https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/new-study-looks-at-why-pilots-withhold-health-information/

The point is, I don't believe the 3rd class is making the skies any safer. If you want to talk 1st class, I'm all ears. 

Third class you have to at least pee in a cup.  Basic med you need nothing more than a signature.  Michael Jackson had to work harder to get Propofol then you have to get a basic med. 

[hammdo]

My Cardiologist wants full blood work up, etc. We’re doing more than required as he wants to be certain. Blood work 4 times a year, Urologist , etc. he asked for all records. Since I had heart failure in the past and got my special issuance multiple times, we know where I started. I take no chances but that is me.

-Don

[M20F]

45 minutes ago, Evan said:

Peeing in a cup for a medical is not checking for drugs… 

You were making the distinction that a 3rd class was no different than a basic med, I was not inferring it was a drug test. 

[M20F]

1 hour ago, hammdo said:

My Cardiologist wants full blood work up, etc. We’re doing more than required as he wants to be certain. Blood work 4 times a year, Urologist , etc. he asked for all records. Since I had heart failure in the past and got my special issuance multiple times, we know where I started. I take no chances but that is me.

-Don

You are required to do none of that for a basic med.  

[hammdo]

Totally agree - thus I’m doing more than required- to be sure…

-Don

[bcg]

Third class you have to at least pee in a cup.  Basic med you need nothing more than a signature.  Michael Jackson had to work harder to get Propofol then you have to get a basic med. 

That's just to check for diabetes, it's not a drug test.

Sent from my Pixel 6a using Tapatalk

[Pinecone]

16 hours ago, M20F said:

Yes but I smoke crack and beat my wife.  So I don’t have a PCP.  I just hustle an emergent care doctor to sign my basic med form.

What you do and what basic med allows for are two wildly differing things.  

And how is that different than shopping an "easy" AME.

Even the FAA says there is no difference in accident rate between BasicMed and Class 3.

And a friend of mine flies for a regional, so holds a Class 1.  He had a heart attack on final.  He survived, but the Class 1 helped so much in predicting that.

[GeeBee]

The resting EKG for a Class 1 is a joke.

 

[aviatoreb]

Does anyone know - how common and dangerous are medical conditions while driving - like what are the outcome prognosis of having a heart attack while driving on a crowded highway at 70mph?  Do people pull over and slump over the steering wheel on the side?  Or do they swerve into the other traffic and create a massive burning multi-car pile up?

Knock on wood.

 

 

 

[ilovecornfields]

6 hours ago, aviatoreb said:

Does anyone know - how common and dangerous are medical conditions while driving - like what are the outcome prognosis of having a heart attack while driving on a crowded highway at 70mph?  Do people pull over and slump over the steering wheel on the side?  Or do they swerve into the other traffic and create a massive burning multi-car pile up?

Knock on wood.

 

 

 

Medical events while driving are pretty common but most people just pull over and call 9-1-1. With the really horrible crashes when someone is DOA it’s difficult to tell which came first - the collision or the medical event.

There are lots of people driving who shouldn’t be and many more impaired drivers (medications, drugs, alcohol, fatigue, medical conditions, etc) than we like to admit.

Living in wine country in a state with legalized marijuana and everyone texting while driving, I can tell you driving scares me more that flying. 

[skykrawler]

A commercial drives license (CDL) requires a medical (in Virginia, anyway).

I don't understand, if you don't want the limitations of basic med - go get a class III.