dham1956 Posted March 14, 2022 Report Posted March 14, 2022 Where can I purchase a Mooney Aux. GPU Power Cable/plug for a 1981 M20K? Quote
StevenL757 Posted March 14, 2022 Report Posted March 14, 2022 Does your receptacle look like it takes this plug? https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/jumperplug.php?clickkey=17578 Quote
smwash02 Posted March 14, 2022 Report Posted March 14, 2022 My 87K has the Cessna 3 pin style. I bought the plug @StevenL757 linked to build a jump start box, but also got this for doing database updates and whatnot. Quote
dham1956 Posted March 14, 2022 Author Report Posted March 14, 2022 Still trying to figure out how Mooneyspace works. I'm used to Facebook. lol I'm traveling right now without the Mooney so I can't remember exactly what it looks like. I was surprised when I called Spruce and they had no idea what plug I needed. So thats why I'm here. Quote
Jerry Pressley Posted March 14, 2022 Report Posted March 14, 2022 brent 423 273 3557 has 4 or 5 Quote
GeeBee Posted March 14, 2022 Report Posted March 14, 2022 If you are building a jump box you may want to consider this https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/jumpercables.php I say this because to use the naked plug, you have to solder the cables into it with a torch. With the above you can cut the clamps off and crimp on terminals to attach to your power source. While 160 bucks may seem pricey, when you price the naked plug plus the length of 4 gauge tinned cable involved, it is cheaper to buy the prefabricated unit and just cut the clamps off. 3 Quote
bradp Posted March 14, 2022 Report Posted March 14, 2022 34 minutes ago, GeeBee said: If you are building a jump box you may want to consider this https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/jumpercables.php I say this because to use the naked plug, you have to solder the cables into it with a torch. With the above you can cut the clamps off and crimp on terminals to attach to your power source. While 160 bucks may seem pricey, when you price the naked plug plus the length of 4 gauge tinned cable involved, it is cheaper to buy the prefabricated unit and just cut the clamps off. Guy is correct. I used a length of cable, red NATO plug and soldered. Then used some of those can’t mess of the polarity battery disconnects. There is some effort in making the cable. Quote
GeneralT001 Posted March 14, 2022 Report Posted March 14, 2022 Are these any good? https://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/el/jumpercablesplugs_whitelightning/m1435_14v.php Quote
dham1956 Posted March 15, 2022 Author Report Posted March 15, 2022 Thank you everyone for the help. I've found a plug that works. Quote
201Steve Posted March 15, 2022 Report Posted March 15, 2022 5 hours ago, bradp said: Guy is correct. That isn’t Guy. FYI Quote
bradp Posted March 15, 2022 Report Posted March 15, 2022 Just now, 201Steve said: That isn’t Guy. FYI Hahaha … it’s close, and got me. Sorry not guy. :-) Quote
201Steve Posted March 15, 2022 Report Posted March 15, 2022 He really needs to parenthesis his name “Geebee (not guy)”. I would. Quote
carusoam Posted March 15, 2022 Report Posted March 15, 2022 oooops… too late. The most simple way to start… By the time you figure out what it is you are trying to do…. And what is best for your situation…. You may be onto a completely different idea… what is it you are trying to do? Are you familiar with the reverse polarity protection? Best regards, -a- +1 for getting a pre flown device from Brent… Quote
A64Pilot Posted March 15, 2022 Report Posted March 15, 2022 17 hours ago, GeneralT001 said: Are these any good? https://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/el/jumpercablesplugs_whitelightning/m1435_14v.php Real pricy in my opinion and limited use, I’d get me am adjustable 0-48V 1000W DC power supply and use my jumper cables, then I’d have jumper cables, a battery charger and an APU all for maybe $150, if you already have the cables, maybe $300 if you don’t. Just a reminder though, don’t ever jump an aircraft for an IFR flight, you may just need a fully charged battery and you don’t have one. Quote
Fly Boomer Posted March 17, 2022 Report Posted March 17, 2022 On 3/14/2022 at 12:31 PM, smwash02 said: got this for doing database updates and whatnot. Anybody know how much current capacity is required for a 28-volt gear swing? Quote
A64Pilot Posted March 17, 2022 Report Posted March 17, 2022 10 hours ago, Fly Boomer said: Anybody know how much current capacity is required for a 28-volt gear swing? It will vary somewhat from aircraft to aircraft, but will be less than the CB rating, so use that CB rating as your guide. Now it can easily exceed that amount for a short time in what’s called inrush current, but that’s usually the blink of an eye. Are you trying to do a gear swing with the battery removed? A Mooney may work different than other aircraft I’ve worked on and isolate the battery, but I doubt it. I would not try to use a power supply without a battery, unless it was a really good one. Reason is the battery is one really huge capacitor if you will and will act to keep voltage smooth and in range, if the voltage is a little high, the battery will absorb it, and if amperage momentarily exceeds APU rating like maybe inrush current on the gear motor, the battery will supply needed current to keep it from sagging. I’ve found for normal maintenance like gear swings and avionics work etc that a small battery tender is all I need, sure the battery is being run down when the gear motor or avionics are on, but the 2 amp or so tender over time recharges it. If your going to have avionics on for hours at a time, then you may need a good power supply. My aircraft with all lights on and avionics, but no pitot heat draws 15 amps at 14V, 28V would be of course half the amps as it’s twice the voltage. I don’t know what Pitot heat draws but think it’s a lot. Quote
Fly Boomer Posted March 17, 2022 Report Posted March 17, 2022 I'm not near the airplane, but I was thinking the CB is only 7.5 amps, and I assumed (I know, I know - bad idea) that was the primary side of a relay controlling a much higher current draw. I also thought that the external GPU connection did, in fact, disconnect the battery. All that aside, if the current draw, especially at the instant of engagement, is crazy high, it may not make sense to try to cover it with a GPU. Quote
A64Pilot Posted March 17, 2022 Report Posted March 17, 2022 (edited) My 14V J has two CB’s a 5 amp gear cont. which I take it is the relay power and a 15 amp gear act which I’m thinking is the actual actuator power. So if I’m right it’s entirely logical that a 28V airplane’s gear actuator may only pull 7.5 amps, but I’m assuming I’m correct in the function of the CB’s Edited March 17, 2022 by A64Pilot Quote
carusoam Posted March 18, 2022 Report Posted March 18, 2022 2 hours ago, Fly Boomer said: I'm not near the airplane, but I was thinking the CB is only 7.5 amps, and I assumed (I know, I know - bad idea) that was the primary side of a relay controlling a much higher current draw. I also thought that the external GPU connection did, in fact, disconnect the battery. All that aside, if the current draw, especially at the instant of engagement, is crazy high, it may not make sense to try to cover it with a GPU. The battery is not disconnected… because something is plugged into the GPU socket… The only magic…. is the relay that tries to save you from reverse polarization…. No real high current draw either… unless your battery is dead, and something is on trying to run… now you have delivered a full voltage current supply… PP thoughts only, not an aircraft engineer… Best regards, -a- Quote
A64Pilot Posted March 18, 2022 Report Posted March 18, 2022 (edited) IF the battery is dead, then plugging in the power supply, the battery will pull a lot of amps, it will pull as many amps as it takes to raise the battery to supply voltage, or the max the power supply can deliver, whichever comes first, if a Concorde is really at a low SOC, then it will most likely max the power supply, it will over amp and shutdown. A Concorde can pull C8 or 8 times it’s rated AH capacity, which is a whole lot. There are some misconceptions with battery charging, if the supply power is unlimited, then the battery will only draw as much power as it takes to raise the battery to set voltage, so you could have a 1000 amp charger and the battery will only accept the amps it can, no more, if and only if the voltage is correct. Back in the day chargers were pretty much junk, voltage could be 17 or so, but as they were low power the battery was fed only what the charger could make, but leave one for a long time and you would cook the battery. A good modern charger can’t overcharge a battery as it’s voltage is correct. If you had a power supply you could set it at charge voltage, say 14.2 for a Concorde then by watching the acceptance rate when the battery acceptance rate fell to .5% of rated of rated AH drop it to 13.2 and you have a float charger. But if the day came where you had to do a conditioning charge, or a deep discharge recovery like if you forgot and left the Master on. With a variable power supply, well then you could do that too. But with an APU you can’t do anything but power the airplane and charge the battery. An adjustable power supply isn’t dummy proof, that’s it’s downside, you need to set and check it. All this is in the CMM for Concorde, if you have a Gill, do they even publish recovery procedures? https://batterymanagement.concordebattery.com/BatteryDocs/5-0171.pdf On edit, do NOT accomplish a conditioning charge with the battery installed in the aircraft, same for a deep discharge recovery Edited March 18, 2022 by A64Pilot 1 Quote
carusoam Posted March 18, 2022 Report Posted March 18, 2022 Great technical details as usual A64! By the time we want to use that level of detail… The GPU plug usually adds too many variables… People skip the GPU plug and use the various wiring options for their BatteryMinder… Sooooo…. the real question is…. What are we trying to do? 1) There are methods of supplying power to run avionics for hours… getting practice with all of the plane’s systems… 2) There are methods of trickle charging the ship’s batteries… 3) The GPU power plug is most often unused… waiting for that one day a light bulb was left on, and now the battery is dead…. 4) A dead battery is still a no fly… because the charging system can’t handle the full rate of charge over an extended period of time… PP thoughts only, not a battery mechanic… Best regards, -a- 1 Quote
A64Pilot Posted March 18, 2022 Report Posted March 18, 2022 (edited) The only point I was trying to make is that a good say 1000W power supply can do everything, but isn’t idiot proof. 1000W 0-48VDC power supplies go for about $70 on Ebay. 1000w is 71 amps at 14V, of course half that at 28V, so it’s plenty of power, so instead of spending $500 on an APU, spend a whole lot less, for a much more capable piece of equipment. Only draw back is an adjustable power supply is well, adjustable so you need to check it before plugging in to make sure the settings weren’t changed. Oh you do NOT want to trickle charge a Concorde, you want to hit it with a BIG charger, however you may mean float, which is one volt less and is the voltage we leave a charger set to forever to maintain charge Edited March 18, 2022 by A64Pilot 1 Quote
Fly Boomer Posted March 18, 2022 Report Posted March 18, 2022 I have a BatteryMINDer to keep batteries topped up. The GPU would be for running avionics and possible gear swing in the hangar so that those activities don't drag down the batteries. 1 Quote
carusoam Posted March 18, 2022 Report Posted March 18, 2022 Gear swing using the batteries… while your BatteryMinder is connected to the batteries… You won’t notice the amount of energy used… The motors don’t run for longer than a few seconds… the battery supplies the power needed immediately, the BatteryMinder recharges the battery over time… There are a few people around here that have acquired a proper power supply to run their entire avionics suite…. This is where the simple calculations of how many amps does your avionics suite actually use… (amps) How many hours am I going to run the avionics this way… (hours) How long does my battery last with it’s known capacity?… (amp-hours) A simple comparison… and calculation…. Or measurement…. with my battery connected to a BatteryMinder…. And just my avionics running…. How many hours can I run this set-up before the voltage drops to the battery’s 50% capacity level? Concorde supplies a chart to determine how much capacity is in there…. If you use the search function…. I bet Skip has covered these details with respect to the power supply he is using… and a bunch of other details to consider based on his and other’s experience… I usually can’t stay in the hangar all that long… by the time the voltage starts to drop… I’m already done… databases uploaded, data downloaded…BatteryMinder working… No fuss… no complications… For additional amp-hours… there is a stack of used batteries at the airport that are no longer AW for flying, but make great power supplies… PP thoughts only… best regards, -a- Quote
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