Flooded Engine Procedure - Step 4?

[GeneralT001]

Hi,

I'm just going through a Mooney M20J checklist online (I'll be picking up a new - to me - Mooney in early Jan and am reading up as much as I can - I don't have the POH

What is being "pushed" in step 4 of this procedure??

[toto]

1 minute ago, GeneralT001 said:

Hi,

I'm just going through a Mooney M20J checklist online (I'll be picking up a new - to me - Mooney in early Jan and am reading up as much as I can - I don't have the POH

What is being "pushed" in step 4 of this procedure??

I believe this is referring to a “turn and push” ignition key. Turn to start and push in to engage the starter. 
 

[EricJ]

And they don't all have that.   My J is the plain turn it all the way to "start" type.   There's no pushing involved.

 

[GeneralT001]

Thanks all

[Ragsf15e]

I’m pretty sure they fire the shower of sparks (if equipped) when turned to the start, and the starter is engaged by pushing it in from that position.  In practice, they happen about the same time.

[Ragsf15e]

2 minutes ago, GeneralT001 said:

Thanks all

There’s 100 different start techniques. They loosely follow some of the checklists.  It’s worth reading some threads here about hot starts.  Google “Mooney hot start Don Maxwell” and you’ll get some videos too.  Cold starts are easy, but you need to read about and learn exactly how to start it hot.  It’s not hard, but it won’t start at all if you do it even a little wrong or try a normal start.

[toto]

(Obviously this isn’t the flooded start procedure, but it’s the hot procedure mentioned above.. pretty much works every time.)

[Ragsf15e]

Yep, thanks for posting that @toto.  To the OP… you shouldn’t use the flooded start technique you asked about if you do cold and especially hot starts properly.  It’s worth knowing how to do the flooded start just in case, but if you do hot start correctly you’ll never need flooded.

[Hank]

2 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

Yep, thanks for posting that @toto.  To the OP… you shouldn’t use the flooded start technique you asked about if you do cold and especially hot starts properly.  It’s worth knowing how to do the flooded start just in case, but if you do hot start correctly you’ll never need flooded.

There are so many different "correct" hot start procedures, they seem to vary for each injected engine. My O-360 is simple and easy to hot start:  mixture rich, crack the throttle, turn the key and push.

[Ragsf15e]

Just now, Hank said:

There are so many different "correct" hot start procedures, they seem to vary for each injected engine. My O-360 is simple and easy to hot start:  mixture rich, crack the throttle, turn the key and push.

Yes we all need to learn something that works reliably.  If you’re insinuating that it’s hard?  No, it’s not.  It’s just that the older POHs didn’t give a reliable technique, so lots of people invented their own.  I’m pretty sure anyone who’s had an io-360 more than a few months has learned how to start it just fine. 

[Hank]

1 minute ago, Ragsf15e said:

Yes we all need to learn something that works reliably.  If you’re insinuating that it’s hard?  No, it’s not.  It’s just that the older POHs didn’t give a reliable technique, so lots of people invented their own.  I’m pretty sure anyone who’s had an io-360 more than a few months has learned how to start it just fine. 

Then why are there so many threads here asking how to hot start an IO engine? And so many different secret methods that always work, with backup methods for when they don’t? 

I just follow what's in my 1970 Owners Manual. 

[Ragsf15e]

The owners manual didn’t give us a reasonable technique.

[MikeOH]

3 hours ago, Hank said:

Then why are there so many threads here asking how to hot start an IO engine? And so many different secret methods that always work, with backup methods for when they don’t? 

I just follow what's in my 1970 Owners Manual. 

Hmm, then care to share what page of your POH this COLD start procedure came from:

"Run electric pump until fuel pressure peaks and holds, then turn it off; mixture rich; pump throttle 5 times; wind & set clock, don headset (to give cold fuel time to vaporize in the carb bowl); turn the key and push. If it's really cold, like when I lived in West Virginny, spin the prop by hand a couple of rotations first." 

[Hank]

2 hours ago, MikeOH said:

Hmm, then care to share what page of your POH this COLD start procedure came from:

"Run electric pump until fuel pressure peaks and holds, then turn it off; mixture rich; pump throttle 5 times; wind & set clock, don headset (to give cold fuel time to vaporize in the carb bowl); turn the key and push. If it's really cold, like when I lived in West Virginny, spin the prop by hand a couple of rotations first." 

Normal cranking is on p.3-7, cold starts are on p.3-9.

[MikeOH]

1 hour ago, Hank said:

Normal cranking is on p.3-7, cold starts are on p.3-9.

Oddly, page 3-9 doesn't seem to mention "wind and set clock" nor "don headset"

[Hank]

2 hours ago, MikeOH said:

Oddly, page 3-9 doesn't seem to mention "wind and set clock" nor "don headset"

You're free to do those anytime. I do it to kill time while the cold gas slowly vaporizes . . . .

[MikeOH]

Hmm, "alter the starting procedure to accommodate existing conditions" sounds a bit vague to me; kind of begs for the application of your voodoo technique!  Just like the IO guys hot start techniques.

[skydvrboy]

13 hours ago, Hank said:

Then why are there so many threads here asking how to hot start an IO engine?

That’sa really good question. For my injected engine, hot starts are the easiest start there is.  Just don’t touch a thing from where you shut it down and turn the key.  Push in the mixture when it fires, done, every time.

 It’s those dam cold starts that give me fits. How long to run the fuel pump? Leave the mix at full rich or back to cutoff? Wait or start immediately? Too many variables!

Edited December 13, 2021 by skydvrboy

[toto]

30 minutes ago, skydvrboy said:

For my injected engine, hot starts are the easiest start there is.  Just don’t touch a thing from where you shut it down and turn the key.  Push in the mixture when it fires, done, every time.

Yep, the Maxwell procedure (which also matches my flight manual) works perfectly every time for the IO-360.  But I also use this same procedure for the O-360, and it works equally well.