Mooney M20J 1986 Exhaust

[GlennT]

The time has come to replace our exhaust! So, what input can you give on standard vs performance - cost v performance v life span etc. 
 

thanks

Glenn

[kortopates]

I can't imagine ever needing to buy a new exhaust system. Hopefully you can find a good aircraft welding shop. These guys specialize in rebuilding/overhauling exhaust parts (incuding replacing flame arresters if yours uses them) as well as repairing motor mounts. They'll replace whatever sections you need replacing and make your exhaust like new again at a fraction of the cost of new. There are some exhaust out there, like the STC TCM IO-360 installation for the J that you can't source new parts for anyway. I am fortunate in that I have such a shop very close and don't have to wait a long time for the work to be completed, yet others will mail in their exhaust tp such a shop for the work. 

I am not sure what you mean by "performance" vs standard unless your are referring to Powerflow exhaust? There hasn't been any measurable improvement in performance from the Powerflow on the J model.

[Bolter]

As a reference point when looking at overhaul costs, a new exhaust from Knisely is about $2.5k.

[jaylw314]

AWI exhaust also run about $2k+ for M20J.  I should also point out that you may not need to replace everything, although certainly makes it easier.

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard Glenn…

Can I assume you know Andrew & Andrew?  

 

When it comes to exhaust system replacement…

We often have two choices…

1) Overhaul…

2) Replace with a fancy Powerflow system…

OH is the most direct way of getting the original design, supplied in a new form… cost effective.

PF has plenty of reviews around here… it took a few installs to get them more right…  they usually look nice…

If my memory is warmed up enough….

G-OBAL is typical of the forever-plane class of Mooneys…  The PF exhaust system is pretty nice  for forever-planes…

 

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic…

Best regards,

-a-

https://www.powerflowsystems.com

 

[ArtVandelay]

While you may not have to replace the entire system, I had to replace the core muffler because they weren’t able to weld it, the metal was so deteriorating that repair wasn’t possible.
I don’t think the power flow improves performance on the J that much, intake and exhaust was modified for the J. Also the power flow tail pipe tends to stick out.

[N201MKTurbo]

What's wrong with your exhaust? 

It is hard to beat the factory design. Even though everybody thinks they can. If some of your parts are having issues, just pack it up and send it to one of the exhaust overhaulers.

[GlennT]

Hi Carusoam, Yes, indeed i do know Andrew and Andrew, I am a co-owner in the AC. Thoroughly good chapos!

It is the Flamestopper that has blown through and the tailpipe ends are splintered. 

The Powerflow system is stainless steel i think, that should mean it'll never wear out (well if it was a classic car it woudn't - does that come into the equation at all for you guys? 

Thanks for feedback so far.

GT

[jaylw314]

1 hour ago, GlennT said:

Hi Carusoam, Yes, indeed i do know Andrew and Andrew, I am a co-owner in the AC. Thoroughly good chapos!

It is the Flamestopper that has blown through and the tailpipe ends are splintered. 

The Powerflow system is stainless steel i think, that should mean it'll never wear out (well if it was a classic car it woudn't - does that come into the equation at all for you guys? 

Thanks for feedback so far.

GT

AFAIK the stock and aftermarket exhausts are all stainless steel. 

14 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

While you may not have to replace the entire system, I had to replace the core muffler because they weren’t able to weld it, the metal was so deteriorating that repair wasn’t possible.
I don’t think the power flow improves performance on the J that much, intake and exhaust was modified for the J. Also the power flow tail pipe tends to stick out.

If it's just the muffler section, a new AWI muffler was only about $850, so it's hard to imagine someone could repair it for less.  The tailpipe and risers might be cheaper to repair, though, but I've never asked

[EricJ]

3 hours ago, GlennT said:

Hi Carusoam, Yes, indeed i do know Andrew and Andrew, I am a co-owner in the AC. Thoroughly good chapos!

It is the Flamestopper that has blown through and the tailpipe ends are splintered. 

The Powerflow system is stainless steel i think, that should mean it'll never wear out (well if it was a classic car it woudn't - does that come into the equation at all for you guys? 

Thanks for feedback so far.

GT

In the US the only requirement on the flame tube is that pieces of it aren't obstructing the exhaust.   Mine has deteriorated away entirely so that there's essentially nothing left, and that's fine.   It no longer has any potential to block my exhaust.

I don't know whether you guys have more stringent requirements or not.

[jaylw314]

3 hours ago, GlennT said:

Hi Carusoam, Yes, indeed i do know Andrew and Andrew, I am a co-owner in the AC. Thoroughly good chapos!

Oh, holy smokes, that's why your plane's registration sounded familiar!  Say hi to them!

[N201MKTurbo]

The G-OBAL Group

[carusoam]

Hey Glenn, now we know who you are… 

The internal bits are often called flame tubes…

Their value is keeping the hot stuff at the center of the muffler…

If the flame tubes get damaged… they have a tendency to re-route the hot stuff towards something less capable of handling the extra heat…. This shows up as hot spots on the mufflers exterior, next steps are CO leaking into the heating system….

Missing flame tubes are probably a lot better than just damaged ones…. My M20C shed it flame tubes… No known issues followed…

Best to stay with the original design, or a fancy new one, than to soldier on with unknowns…

Choices of exhaust system OHers just got smaller… as one shop bought out the others…

Europe probably has an exhaust system supplier as well…

Around here look for… https://awi-ami.com/exhaust-systems

 

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic…
Best regards,

-a-

[redbaron1982]

Hey! I don't want to hijack this thread, but I was looking for info on the powerflow exhaust system and I think is the right place to ask it.

I'm buying a M20J (from a fellow mooneyspace member) and in the prebuy the exhaust poped up as something that needs to be replaced. The proposal from the MSC is to install a factory exhaust system (that goes for about 1.3kUSD). But I'm not sure if it is not better to take advantage and go with a Powerflow system (I understand they go for 5k).

According to the Powerflow webpage, advantages are great, but I've read otherwise too. Going to my questions, does anybody have "real" life experience on a M20J with Powerflow system in regards of:

• Life span vs stock
• Efficiency vs stock (higher speeds or lower fuel consumption)

Thanks!

[carusoam]

Good news bad news…

The performance of the PF exhaust is not as big of a step for the newer planes…

The PF exhaust is a good piece of equipment….

if you have plenty of dough… for hardware upgrades… proceed.

if your plane budget is significantly drained by the plane purchase… an OH of the existing system is a great idea as well…

 

If you need some logic to go with that…

Getting through the first year of ownership can bring plenty of surprises…

Keep some powder dry, ready for the things that crop up that first year…

As far as wearing out an exhaust system goes… on a NA engine…how many hours did you get out of the last exhaust system? Thousands of hours, and decades of use?

TC’d exhaust systems are a completely different animal…

CO monitor no matter which exhaust system you have or get…

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic…

Best regards,

-a-

[jaylw314]

15 hours ago, redbaron1982 said:

Hey! I don't want to hijack this thread, but I was looking for info on the powerflow exhaust system and I think is the right place to ask it.

I'm buying a M20J (from a fellow mooneyspace member) and in the prebuy the exhaust poped up as something that needs to be replaced. The proposal from the MSC is to install a factory exhaust system (that goes for about 1.3kUSD). But I'm not sure if it is not better to take advantage and go with a Powerflow system (I understand they go for 5k).

According to the Powerflow webpage, advantages are great, but I've read otherwise too. Going to my questions, does anybody have "real" life experience on a M20J with Powerflow system in regards of:

• Life span vs stock
• Efficiency vs stock (higher speeds or lower fuel consumption)

Thanks!

@xcrmckenna installed one a couple years ago?