Catalina checkout

[N201MKTurbo]

So, It went like this...

SOCAL “So, you are direct FIM PSP?”, Me “Affirmative”. SOCAL “You know you are crossing some of the busiest approach and departure corridors in the world?” Me “Yes sir, between the two of us we can make it work” SOCAL “yes sir”

[N201MKTurbo]

BTW,

I wanted to say: “If you didn’t give such horrible IFR routings, I would do it your way.”

[ilovecornfields]

As a student pilot I went from CRQ to HWD to visit my brother in college. I had LORAN so I planned to go direct at 12,500 but due to the mighty Arrow II’s anemic summer climb rate I realized as I was approaching LA that I wasn’t high enough to get over the Bravo and I hadn’t really planned to go around.
 

I asked them for a clearance to climb through the bravo and they asked me what my cruising altitude was. I looked at the 200 fpm climb rate on the VSI and said “12,600.” There was a pause and they said, “Cleared though the Los Angeles Class Bravo airspace, climb and maintain 12,600.” I’m sure they got a laugh out of that one. Did the whole flight at 12,600.

[cliffy]

4 hours ago, ilovecornfields said:

You’re right, of course. It’s your right to fly 500’ over the Bravo, make everyone get out of your way and not talk to anyone. Just like it’s your right to take a long time at the checkout line, fart a bunch when you’re in line, not have your payment method ready and then insist on paying by check. Most people will think you’re obnoxious and you’ll make everyone’s life a little unpleasant— you might not care.

The overwhelming majority of the time, ATC makes my life easier. I don’t mind returning the favor. I get free traffic advisories and maybe I avoid having the airliners all fly around me. 

But that’s just me. You do you.

If I'm going VCV to SNA I talk to Socal  If I'm going SGU to VCV I may or may not talk to LAS as going over above the Class B right over the airport doesn't get in anyones way, same  as does right over LAX southbound or the VFR corridor (of which I had a hand in its inception).  Many times we as GA get shuttled WAY out of the way just to clear airspace that is usable to all by looking out the window (and with ADSB its even easier). East of LAX (RIV area) sure they all come down from on high to below 10K to enter the Class B but that doesn't mean that that airspace can't be effectively and safely used going VFR nordo. Many times I've been run all the way around ABQs airspace clear out side of the boundaries trying to cross through. Some places make the transition easy and effective and some for what ever reason treat it like Restricted airspace. Just depends on where I'm at and the treatment I have been involved in. Most of the time LAS makes it simple even going through at 8500/7500 feet. Most of the time Socal works VCV to SNA  When it starts to get obsequious I look at other options. One can still fly Florida to New Mexico VFR nordo safely as I have done a couple of times. 

[ilovecornfields]

You definitely have options. Personally, I almost never fly around LA VFR. It’s too busy for me and I like have another set of “eyes” looking for traffic. Yes, I don’t always get the route I want. It rarely costs me more than 5 minutes. I flew to San Diego last year and compared going direct VFR over the top of the Bravo vs the “crazy” TEC route that takes you over East LA. The difference was about 5 minutes. It was even less when I actually flew it because they gave me direct several times.

It’s nice that we have multiple options and I’d like to keep it that way. It seems that too often people engage in a behavior that harms others (or takes advantage of a common good) then get really upset when that behavior is restricted and don’t realize how one contributed to the other. Would you like the LAX Class B to go back up to 12.5k’ again?

Edited February 2, 2022 by ilovecornfields

[donkaye]

Regarding LA airspace, after going through it a number of times you get used to what to expect.  I'm often flying to the San Diego area.  If the weather is good, 11,000 one way and 12,000 the other works for ATC on direct flights.  if the weather is not cooperating in LA, then I'll do VFR to LHS so I can intrude into Lemoore's MOA and pick up my IFR clearance from LHS. From there it's going to be V459 SLI V23 OCN =>KRNM or KMYF.  If the weather's not good from KSJC, then it's VINCO V107 AVE => LHS to avoid Lemoore and then the same from LHS.

Other more creative things can be done on the return depending on the weather.  ATC is always going to want you to go up V459.  But what if I don't want to do that out of the way route, but still want ATC monitoring the flight?  If it's VFR, before arriving at SLI, I'll ask for direct KSCJ.  That is likely to be denied, but every once in awhile it may be approved.  If it's denied, I'll ask for ON TOP direct to KSJC.  That puts the separation burden on me, and will sometimes get approved. If that fails, I'll cancel IFR and request flight following and go direct above the Class B.

[Jerry 5TJ]

8 hours ago, ilovecornfields said:

Personally, I almost never fly around LA VFR. It’s too busy for me and I like have another set of “eyes” looking for traffic.

I used to fly from Northern California into SNA about once a month, for over a decade. I never, not even once, went VFR.   LHS V459 SLI  was the route then as now. 

[donkaye]

If I were going to land at any airport in the LA Basin, as Jerry says, it would be filing every time.

[jaylw314]

53 minutes ago, Jerry 5TJ said:

I used to fly from Northern California into SNA about once a month, for over a decade. I never, not even once, went VFR.   LHS V459 SLI  was the route then as now. 

VFR under is totally doable if you use the LAX Special VFR transition route, you don't even have to deal with Approach if you don't want to for that transition.  All the other VFR transition routes are usually open, although they usually require talking to ATC and getting approval to do them.

Whether you'd want to do it VFR is a whole other question

 

Edited February 3, 2022 by jaylw314

[cliffy]

IFR is only a guarantee for IFR traffic separation No guarantee for separation from VFR traffic. 

;The vast majority of LA Basin traffic operates VFR  If it was so dangerous we'd have mid-airs every day.