M20J value opinions please

[plumberpilot]

Hi I’m looking for a general value opinion of our 1990 M20J MSE TT 3980

630 SMOH at Triad roller tappet conversion 

Paint 9/16

Original interior just OK condition 

530W 496 With xm weather GTX345 w ADSB in and out.

Tanks not resealed but will be needed soon NDH

The situation is one of the owners has been non renewed by our insurance 88yr old Falcon  and the other 2 owners will be buying him out unfortunately.

I have an idea of value but I’d like to hear opinions about it too.

Thanks

Ricky

Edited August 12, 2021 by plumberpilot
Just added a couple of interior pictures. Thanks for all the comments they’re very helpful I appreciate them.

[KB4]

In today's market 120-130

[ArtVandelay]

I would say $110K….I subtracted 10 for tanks, 10 for lack of an engine monitor, and 10 for the interior.
Avionics are a little dated for my taste.

[PT20J]

I'd contact Jimmy Garrison -- he'd know best. 

[hypertech]

In this instance, market value is only half relevant because you aren't selling a share.  You need a price this person is agreeable to that is representative of the value in the partnership, which also probably takes into account any reserve funds, etc.  I'd start with what you insure it for and work from there.  After all, that is the value the partnership agreed to accept and walk away with if there was a total loss.

[jaylw314]

3 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

I would say $110K….I subtracted 10 for tanks, 10 for lack of an engine monitor, and 10 for the interior.
Avionics are a little dated for my taste.

For valuation, I don't think the tanks make a difference, and the interior has to be pretty bad to change the value significantly.  IIRC when I was buying 5-6 years ago, a graphical engine monitor was worth $3-4k added value only.

If you're negotiating a price, of course, all those could totally make a difference based on the people involved, though

Edited August 11, 2021 by jaylw314

[Lance Link]

The 201s are in demand, and it does have some valuable features.  I'd put it at $130k, although that would probably be a maximum.  There are a few planes on Trade a Plane now that may provide some idea.

[DCarlton]

I think you could sell it quick for $110K.  So I agree with the $120-$130k suggestions. 

[jetdriven]

Take a look at what stuff is being asked for on the Internet and maybe you might wanna revise that number a little bit. I just had a client pay 100k for a 1980 J model with kx170b radios and original interior. After looking six months. 

[carusoam]

That’s a tough ask…

Was there an agreement for when the partnership breaks up, on how to value the plane?

There is a price calculator in the MooneyFlyer site…. Great for rough estimates…

Paying Jimmie to calculate one based on today’s market… probably the most accurate and fair…. Expect that you may want to pay for this service.

 

Will you be selling the 1/3 to somebody else?   That would surely assign a fair price… unless you make a sweetheart deal for another friend…

Looks like you came upon an interesting partnership question…

Best regards,

-a-

 

 

[ArtVandelay]

For valuation, I don't think the tanks make a difference, and the interior has to be pretty bad to change the value significantly.  IIRC when I was buying 5-6 years ago, a graphical engine monitor was worth $3-4k added value only.
If you're negotiating a price, of course, all those could totally make a difference based on the people involved, though

I assume the tanks are leaking since he mentioned it (definitely a PPI item).
Once you paint a plane, not having a nice interior or bad glass really stands out like a sore thumb.
I consider the engine a runout without an engine monitor, because how do you know how it’s been treated. The cylinders could have overheating for the last 600 hours.

Maybe I’m picky?

[jaylw314]

7 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

I assume the tanks are leaking since he mentioned it (definitely a PPI item).
Once you paint a plane, not having a nice interior or bad glass really stands out like a sore thumb.
I consider the engine a runout without an engine monitor, because how do you know how it’s been treated. The cylinders could have overheating for the last 600 hours.

Maybe I’m picky?

Yes, I was just talking about the value when declaring for an insurance company or for a loan.  You are absolutely correct those will affect the actual sale price between buyer and seller.  in OP's case, it's a little wonky because it's not a traditional buyer/seller thing.

[graham28105]

It's definitely worth $110K because that's what I'd drive up to Roanoke and give you today. (pending an inspection) Hope that helps.

[plumberpilot]

On the other side of this topic I would dearly love to find a way for our friend to keep flying with us.

88 yr old tons of hours ATP current medical but  our insurance company decided to non renew us with him on the policy. Flown this Mooney since ‘92. 
Does anyone have any advice  maybe I should start a new thread but people have been gracious here so I’ll start here.

[LANCECASPER]

I would take out the front seats and take them to an upholstery shop to see how closely they could match them, and in today's market I'd start at 145K.

[gacoon]

23 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

I would take out the front seats and take them to an upholstery shop to see how closely they could match them, and in today's market I'd start at 145K.

+1 for that and be prepared tp take 135-140 based on your description.

[carusoam]

On 8/15/2021 at 9:35 AM, plumberpilot said:

On the other side of this topic I would dearly love to find a way for our friend to keep flying with us.

88 yr old tons of hours ATP current medical but  our insurance company decided to non renew us with him on the policy. Flown this Mooney since ‘92. 
Does anyone have any advice  maybe I should start a new thread but people have been gracious here so I’ll start here.

There is a thread around here related to age and insurance…

we have a few UFOs around here…. Flying Octegenarians…

The oldest Mooney pilot celebrated his 100th birthday earlier this year… with a solo flight and the news camera watching…. 

 

Have him join the conversation… 
 

Some UFOs are in better shape than other people…

We need to get to the bottom of this before I turn 80….   

Best regards,

-a-

[Tx_Aggie]

I’d start somewhere north of 150k… M20J’s are highly desirable in today’s market. Yours being one of the newer versions would command a nice premium in my opinion.  

[Lance Link]

I still can't figure out why more people don't use sheepskin seat covers.  They are super comfortable, warm in winter and cool in summer, and look really good.  They are a great way to cover up and dress up worn original upholstery for very little money.  If they are good enough for airline pilots they are good enough for us.  Try Rocky Mountain Sheep Covers in San Jose.  They will send you color samples, get the ones that look the best, and then send them measurements.  Bob, as they say, will be your uncle.  

[jaylw314]

1 hour ago, Lance Link said:

I still can't figure out why more people don't use sheepskin seat covers.  They are super comfortable, warm in winter and cool in summer, and look really good.  They are a great way to cover up and dress up worn original upholstery for very little money.  If they are good enough for airline pilots they are good enough for us.  Try Rocky Mountain Sheep Covers in San Jose.  They will send you color samples, get the ones that look the best, and then send them measurements.  Bob, as they say, will be your uncle.  

Ha!  I'll pick a bone with that, I just absolutely HATE sheepskin covers!  I hate the way they feel and they always seem uncomfortably hot to me, but to each there own

 

[Guest]

On 8/15/2021 at 9:35 AM, plumberpilot said:

On the other side of this topic I would dearly love to find a way for our friend to keep flying with us.

88 yr old tons of hours ATP current medical but  our insurance company decided to non renew us with him on the policy. Flown this Mooney since ‘92. 
Does anyone have any advice  maybe I should start a new thread but people have been gracious here so I’ll start here.

Find a young CFI who wants to build time by flying with your partner as a safety pilot.  It’s a win for all concerned, you keep the partner and the plane, your partner gets to enjoy flying, the CFI logs time and experience form an old but seasoned pilot.

Clarence

[Guest]

47 minutes ago, jaylw314 said:

Ha!  I'll pick a bone with that, I just absolutely HATE sheepskin covers!  I hate the way they feel and they always seem uncomfortably hot to me, but to each there own

 

Have you got it inside out?  It does make a difference!  The front seat in my RV is sheep skin covered and it’s fine with the wool side out.

Clarence

[kortopates]

i just don’t like them in the airplane because they are so heavy for the little they do. But we all have our own priorities!
But watch out for further impeding your view of the gear down indication on the floor.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ArtVandelay]

I still can't figure out why more people don't use sheepskin seat covers.  They are super comfortable, warm in winter and cool in summer, and look really good.  They are a great way to cover up and dress up worn original upholstery for very little money.  If they are good enough for airline pilots they are good enough for us.  Try Rocky Mountain Sheep Covers in San Jose.  They will send you color samples, get the ones that look the best, and then send them measurements.  Bob, as they say, will be your uncle.  

Do you have fuzzy dice too?
;-)

[A64Pilot]

I like sheep skin covers, I’m Mr. 50% size wise too, or was anyway.

‘In most seats they are just too thick and make me sit too high and too far forward and that also reduces support for your lower legs.

But for a seat that is designed to take their thickness into account, they are great, warm in winter and cool in Summer.

The AH-64 and Blackhawk I believe have sheep skin covers, or maybe a synthetic copy, but they work well, in Bosnia and Korea cold up to Kuwait and Iraq heat.

I love leather, but living down South it’s for vehicles with good air conditioning only, otherwise you sweat, for me fabric airplane seats work best, but if I could get sheep skin and keep the factory seating position, I’d do it in a heart beat.

But the OP has a point, for aircraft that pilots spend very long times sitting in, like the B2 and Airliners, it’s Oregon Aero cushions with sheep skin covers, because those two are really difficult to beat.

https://www.oregonaero.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=129&Itemid=403

Edited August 22, 2021 by A64Pilot