Flap Speeds

[Daniel]

When I took flight training in my Acclaim, I recall the CFI advising that top of the white arc was the book limit for full flap extension.  He also advised that without a book speed for T/O flap settings, the best thing was to use that same 110 KIAS as a limitation for T/O flaps.  Fair enough, I thought.

But now I'm thinking about it again.  I reread the limitations section recently, and now I am wondering:  if there is no speed limit listed for T/O flaps, does that mean that they can be extended at any speed?

What have others learned when they transitioned to the Mooneys?

[201er]

1978 201 POH says "VFE Maximum Flap Extended Speed - 116KIAS - Do not exceed these speeds with the given flap settings." So I'd say it applies to the use of flaps regardless of setting. I wouldn't see any point nor desire for using the flaps at a higher speed anyway. I always check that I am within white arc before extending flaps.

[Bolter]

I also have trouble thinking of a reason to extend flaps at higher speeds during take off.  If I am already getting to cruise climb speeds, I don't need the flaps anymore.  For slowing down, I drop the gear, and don't use flaps until established or when initiating descent on downwind.

I interpret the VFE speed as the max speed to fly with flaps extended, or to actuate the flaps.  There is a precedent that the speed limit to extend the flaps and the speed limit for flaps already extended can be different values.  The landing gear is that way.  Retract at 105 ktas, but you can leave them down and fly at 132 ktas.  If you somehow forgot the gear and were at full throttle, you would need to slow down to actuate the gear, then accelerate back up.  

-dan

[Daniel]

In the limitations section of the POH, Vfe is listed as 110 KIAS with this remark: "Do not exceed this speed with flaps in full down position." Further in the same section is description of airpseed marking. The white band, from 59-110 KIAS is the "Operating range with flaps fully extended."

Twice the POH refers to the 110 KIAS limitation in relation to "full" flaps. It raises the inference that there is no speed limitation on 10 degree flaps. Hence my confusion.

[xftrplt]

Quote: Daniel

In the limitations section of the POH, Vfe is listed as 110 KIAS with this remark: "Do not exceed this speed with flaps in full down position." Further in the same section is description of airpseed marking. The white band, from 59-110 KIAS is the "Operating range with flaps fully extended."

Twice the POH refers to the 110 KIAS limitation in relation to "full" flaps. It raises the inference that there is no speed limitation on 10 degree flaps. Hence my confusion.

[jetdriven]

I agree fully with Dick.

The service manual allows the flaps to be rigged from 0 to 2 degrees.  So you could extend 2 degrees of flaps at any airspeed.  Just joking of course.  

[Daniel]

You might be right.  I suppose the only to choices are to use that speed for all flaps or to say without limitation published you can use T/O flaps at any speed.  But that second interpretation is hard to accept.

Ive flown a lot of aircraft models in 30+ years flying, and I can't recall another model that didn't publish an airspeed limit for first notch of flaps.

[xftrplt]

Quote: Daniel

You might be right.  I suppose the only to choices are to use that speed for all flaps or to say without limitation published you can use T/O flaps at any speed.  But that second interpretation is hard to accept.

Ive flown a lot of aircraft models in 30+ years flying, and I can't recall another model that didn't publish an airspeed limit for first notch of flaps.

[carusoam]

There are several people who may admit, early in their mooney careers, they have departed with T/O flaps set.

After wheels up, and cruising, why is this ship so slow today?  Flaps are still down....

No bent or over stressed hardware from this type of incident?

 

There are several good ways to slow the plane down without needing to interpret what the factory means by flap extend speed.

Is there a good reason to enter into a gray zone of bent and stressed metal?

Best regards,

-a-

[jhbehrens]

I asked Mooney the question just after I bought my Eagle and they told me the limit applied equally to partial and full flap extention.

 

Jorgen

[Parker_Woodruff]

I have gotten busy and circled back to checklists late, accidently leaving take off flaps deployed just as the ac was nosing over into cruise. 130 IAS or so.  The response I got from everyone I asked at the time....MSC, MAPA SF, Local CFII, etc. was what the limitation provided. "Full Down".

[John Pleisse]

I was logged in as Parker. The preceeding was my post.

[Shadrach]

Quote: carusoam

There are several people who may admit, early in their mooney careers, they have departed with T/O flaps set.

After wheels up, and cruising, why is this ship so slow today?  Flaps are still down....

No bent or over stressed hardware from this type of incident?

 

There are several good ways to slow the plane down without needing to interpret what the factory means by flap extend speed.

Is there a good reason to enter into a gray zone of bent and stressed metal?

Best regards,

-a-