TonyPynes Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 This past week I was taxiing from my hangar across the ramp area to the runup area. I felt my front end collapse and quickly shut down the plane and climbed out to see what happened. The good news is my nose gear didnt collapse but the bad news was the nose was sitting in a hole in the tarmac. I went and grabbed a lineman who helped me remove the nose from the hole. Truss looked fine. but the tips of the prop were scraped. I am thinking less than an 1/8 inch, maybe less than a 1/16th from my estimate on one corner of the prop tip. Lineman says the FBO dug holes and had tie downs embedded below the surface so snow scrapers didnt take them off. I saw two of them and was avoiding them and other taxiing planes but did not see the third tie down hole. While I dont remember an RPM dip or anything who knows. Two different mechanics are calling for teardown and inspection. So looks like I am in for a Teardown and Inspection of the engine, governor and prop overhaul possibly. All this on a 50 hour SMOH on engine and prop. Deep breath. Who would have thought holes in the ramp area. Be careful out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 Austin- I'm sorry to hear about your mishap. I was told by an instructor during to training to always watch out for tie downs and never taxi over them. He said with airplanes that have lesser prop clearance - a divit or bump could cause a prop strike. Also, and I'm not sure if this is heresay or not, the tie down rope could get sucked up into the prop - I've never heard of that happening, but it scared me enough to always tax around tie down areas rather than through. Good luck - I'm sure your engine is probably just fine. Would this be an out of pocket expense or does insurance cover it minus the deductable? -Seth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyPynes Posted October 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 Yea I only saw two of the tie downs. the third one was coiled in the hole and I missed it as i was trying to avoid the other two. I would never intentionally taxi over tie downs....just the thought of props blowing tie down ropes around under the plane doesnt sound good. Yea insurance will cover it if the FBO doesnt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N601RX Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 Tough Break! As long as the insurance was paying I would want a complete tear down inspection. That would remove any doubt for both you and any future buyer. Here is what Lycoming calls a prop strike. They exclude damage that can be repaired with minor dressing as being a prop strike. You might try calling their tech support line. http://www.lycoming.textron.com/support/publications/service-bulletins/pdfs/SB533A.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piloto Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 I don't think you need to tear down the engine since it was not stopped by the incident. As far for the prop I have seen worst scratches from taxing on gravel or high grass. Just sanding off the edge with fine sand paper will make it look like new. José Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Pleisse Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 Boy...that just stinks.....you should discuss the matter with your airport manager or municipality. I was recently sent off a runway and my prop ran through weeds. If your require significant prop dressing (other than minor filing), it might end up being a T-D. Hang in there with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantom Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 Quote: AustinPynes Two different mechanics are calling for teardown and inspection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 I would take detailed photos and send them to Lycoming and ask them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyPynes Posted October 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 Quote: N601RX Tough Break! As long as the insurance was paying I would want a complete tear down inspection. That would remove any doubt for both you and any future buyer. Here is what Lycoming calls a prop strike. They exclude damage that can be repaired with minor dressing as being a prop strike. You might try calling their tech support line. http://www.lycoming.textron.com/support/publications/service-bulletins/pdfs/SB533A.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyPynes Posted October 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 Quote: Piloto I don't think you need to tear down the engine since it was not stopped by the incident. As far for the prop I have seen worst scratches from taxing on gravel or high grass. Just sanding off the edge with fine sand paper will make it look like new. José Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyPynes Posted October 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 Quote: N4352H Boy...that just stinks.....you should discuss the matter with your airport manager or municipality. I was recently sent off a runway and my prop ran through weeds. If your require significant prop dressing (other than minor filing), it might end up being a T-D. Hang in there with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyPynes Posted October 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 Quote: jetdriven I would take detailed photos and send them to Lycoming and ask them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 Lycoming SB 533C deals with propeller strikes. This is different than "sudden stoppage" which is one revolution or less. Take a look. http://www.lycoming.textron.com/support/publications/service-bulletins/pdfs/SB533A.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriven Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 Also, ask them what they are basing their recommendation. No "feelings" here, how about some hard data to stand on. Quote: AustinPynes I actually think I fall into the category of just needs dressing but my independent and the FAA Repair Station both are calling for teardown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyPynes Posted October 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 Quote: jetdriven Lycoming SB 533C deals with propeller strikes. This is different than "sudden stoppage" which is one revolution or less. Take a look. http://www.lycoming.textron.com/support/publications/service-bulletins/pdfs/SB533A.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyPynes Posted October 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 I like your question but mechanics I talk to and there are not that many in this case, two, both say and believe the same thing. Prop hits something, prop strike, means tear down to avoid risk for the pilot...and as business men I am sure risk avoided for them too if they were to dress and sign it back to service. The FAA in the AD and the engine maker in the SB have both chose to avoid risk and be conservative on the issue in my opinion and the industry seems to follow suit. At least that is my experience. As a newbie owner without the legal staffers and financial backing that Lycoming has or the FAA for that matter I have to make decisions based on finite cost versus risk and try to make reasonable decisions. Since I have two mechanics now saying teardown and inspect if I move forward (knowing lycoming is going to say the same as the mechanics) and do not do it I am in essence setting myself up for additional legal and financial risks I don't want to take. But let me be clear I do not believe this is a mechanical risk. Quote: jetdriven I actually think I fall into the category of just needs dressing but my independent and the FAA Repair Station both are calling for teardown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgePerry Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 An earlier post mentioned insurance. My question to the group is: With full flight coverage, are prop strikes covered? Anyway you look at it, the best way to handle a prop strike (even a minor one) is a complete teardown and overhaul by a reputable shop, which is $20-35K, so it's not cheap. I find it hard to believe insurance companies are going to pay the bill. Someone please enlighten me on what "full flight coverage" actually covers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyPynes Posted October 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 At some point you have to decide if a complete teardown is required. I mean the SB mentioned tall grass. Really? Maybe a really strong gust. (I know silly right) So if you land on turf at all and a patch of tall grass is in the way, a teardown?? Anyway we all have our comfort level with risk and budget and common sense (not common I know) has to be used. In the case of props, the FAA, engine mfg and licensed mechanics from my limited experience, say anything hits the prop running or not - teardown the engine. As for insurance from what I have read, yes, prop strikes are covered and in many cases the insurance companies require the teardown, in others it is the decision of the owner with the licensed mechanic. This is just what I have read. Tomorrow I will know what my insurance covers if the FBO isnt helping. Quote: GeorgePerry An earlier post mentioned insurance. My question to the group is: With full flight coverage, are prop strikes covered? Anyway you look at it, the best way to handle a prop strike (even a minor one) is a complete teardown and overhaul by a reputable shop, which is $20-35K, so it's not cheap. I find it hard to believe insurance companies are going to pay the bill. Someone please enlighten me on what "full flight coverage" actually covers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantom Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 Quote: AustinPynes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyPynes Posted October 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 Quote: fantom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 A single old data point.. My boss bumped his C182 prop on a parking lot concrete "log". His engine tear down was coverd by the insurance company, but pro-rated based on hours SMOH. Hope all works out well. Seems like you are going about it the right way. Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 A single old data point.. My boss bumped his C182 prop on a parking lot concrete "log". His engine tear down was coverd by the insurance company, but pro-rated based on hours SMOH. Hope all works out well. Seems like you are going about it the right way. Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 Double button push... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyPynes Posted October 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 With 50 hours SMOH I guess I dont have much prorating to worry about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTK Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 You have everything going for you here. You have the FBO who bears major responsibility, and you have insurance. You also have a 50 hour SMOH engine with minimal pro rata. I would go for the teardown and inspection. Why not!? Go for it for the piece of mind if nothing else! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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