Best Value Mooney

[Pilot boy]

On 11/21/2020 at 3:35 PM, MooniacSC72 said:

Welcome KJC,

Former Army aviator fixed/rotor. I love my 67 C. My kids are a little smaller 5&1. We primarily travel the southeast and I use the plane to commute to work. Very efficient. Also fun around the pattern and local area. Airplane expenses creep up on you quickly and the affordable C model helps you keep that in check. You’re going to want to upgrade any plane you buy...guaranteed. So be ready to spend a little on your first annual as your IA gets to know your plane and then you’ll want to consider adding options like GPS, AP, engine monitor, digital AI, shoulder harnesses, etc. I hear people say that spending this money on a C is a waste. I disagree. The C is a very efficient platform...not many airplanes can check all the boxes that a C model can check. In my humble opinion it’s the total cost you’ll spend on the plane that matters and that is purchase price plus upgrades, maintenance, insurance, hangar, etc. I think the market is waking up to that and people are willing to pay for an efficient plane that has good tech so I think the likelihood of losing money on a C is getting slimmer daily. Certainly the other perspectives listed here are valid. It all depends on you, your mission and your budget but I think the C is an excellent choice. Find a good one, upgrade it, enjoy it. Good luck!!

Edit: Just to give you a sense for size and comfort. This was us a few weeks ago on a three day trip to Gatlinburg, TN from Greenville, SC. I’m 6’3”, 220lbs, we were all comfortable and nowhere near gross and we had more room for luggage. 50 min flight. MUCH better than the 3-4 hour drive. I probably wouldn’t want to fly this for more than 5-6 hours but that will get you a long way. 

Where is the shirt from?

[Pilot boy]

On 11/19/2020 at 8:43 PM, PilotCoyote said:

An E model really has no rear leg room, unless the front passengers are very short legged... I use the second seat stop from the rear and nobody can put their feet down on the floor in my D model, unless there is only one rear passenger and they sit side diagonally with feet pointed sideways behind the other front seat.

My back seat is good for baggage, or a folding bike, or one small person who doesn’t mind sitting sideways.

 

I own an E and I’d disagree with saying it has no leg room.  It sounds like it’s much bette than the D?  I am about 6 ft tall and I have to be at the 3rd notch from front just to have full control of the pedals and brakes so the person behind me has some decent legroom.  Certainly enough for 3 adults.  

[carusoam]

B, C, E, & D... are all sharing the same leg room...

All built on identical frames... C is an evolution of the B... D + upgrades = C

E is a C with fuel injection... and the 20 extra HP that comes with it...

 

Expect when the coyote said there was no leg room.... there is some... but, if you want more... F and G are the next steps.... for leg room.

Best regards,

-a-

 

[Pilot boy]

On 11/20/2020 at 10:22 AM, SSimpson77 said:

@KJC1333, you have already started off you’re search on a good note. I’m located in Grants Pass (3S8) and if your somewhere near southern Oregon, I wouldn’t mind picking you up and letting you see space for yourself and get a feeling for what a basic C model does. 
I’ve filled the back seats with kids and my wife up front, 195/120/75/75 lbs and still topped off tanks and had plenty of w&b to play with. I’m still learning the plane (~200 hrs) and haven’t gotten close to high density altitude yet, but I don’t push the book numbers. I stay well below the weights and balances as a safety margin. 
I love my plane and with where I’m at in learning, I really only wish it had fuel injection. Well, WAAS GPS,engine monitor, shoulder harness, Rosen visors, nice intercom would be nice but Remember the most expensive things to add later are engine parts and prop changes. Yes expensive to add glass and radios, but if operational and solid they will often not be the thing that sidelines you from your mission. If you want FL, you know what you need and the 76 F with ray jay turbo sounds fun/good to me. I guess I’m saying you can’t turn a gas truck into diesel truck but you can lift it and add big tires but it will never roll coal if that’s what you want to do. 

Good luck and thank you for your service! That goes for all of our Vets out there too guys and gals!

Be very careful with the POH numbers for DA.  I just bought an E this summer and a friend and I were at 1200 ft MSL at full gross in the E basically (maybe 60 lbs under) just he and I but we’re both 230 lbs +.  At 95 degrees out DA of about 4000 ft it took me nearly 2000 ft to take off.  I’d say it took 1700 ft total probably, much higher than book estimate.  It seemed risky on a 2900 ft strip.  I’m very glad I didn’t try the 2000 ft strip nearby that day.  So definitely take weight out and use a long strip until you know exactly how your plane performs in real life.  There is a video on YouTube of a Mooney unable to climb in a small Oregon strip and plows into an embankment.  Don’t trust the POH.  I won’t use anything less than 2900 ft now in the summer around Midwest.  

[carusoam]

+1 for using real data when temps warm up...

What is missing from 60s airplanes was real data... the POHs were about 200 pages short of what modern POHs would be for the same plane...

DA is a natural killer...

True for all planes not just Mooneys...

Extra true when you fill them to MGTW...

More true for lower HP engines and smaller wings...

PP thoughts only, not a CFI...

Best regards,

-a-

 

[M20F]

20 hours ago, Pilot boy said:

Only downside to the E engine is that it can be a little tough to start when it’s real hot out or the engine is real warm 

But on a positive note you don’t have to worry about a carb fire. 

[Sheriff23]

On 12/3/2020 at 10:20 PM, KJC1333 said:

All, great comments,  greatly appreciated. Found a 1965 M20E with a great interior and low time prop with most speed mods. Avionics are a shortcoming but that seems to be the only constraint that I could address over time. I’ve been quoted by two insurance companies, one for $2800 and one for $3300 annually. Do you any of you have a preferred insurance carrier or financing entity? Lastly, also curious if you have preferred lenders for purposes of terms and interest rates. Thanks! 

I’ve been using BWI insurance and they’ve beat every other company I looked into. Some others didn’t want to count my military flight time even though I had all my civilian FAA ratings before joining the Air Force, but BWI did. Highly recommend them. 

[Rick-bond]

I realize I am behind on this topic, But I have a G and it is a great plane. The slowest of all the mooneys. O-360 in it. The most reliable engine ever built so they say.  You can get a mooney m20G pretty cheap if you can find one. I bought mine for $26600.00 U.S dollars. That leaves me with a lot of money to get it where I want it. I put a new starter in it, battery, voltage regulator, plugs, j model side windows and the rest of the windows. I took the interior apart, painted it, painted the leather on the seats. Bought jacks for it. changed the nose gear pucks and tire. starter relay, master relay. New scimitar top prop with hub and spinner. Now I am waiting for uavionix tailbeaconx to get certified.  Now I have spent just under 20,000.00 on it.I am under $44,000.00 and there are a lot of new parts on it that I dont have to worry about. You could spend $60,000.00 and all the parts I just mentioned you could be in need of.  By the way about speed. I live in the detroit area and If I left for Tampa Florida the J model would beat me there by 40 minutes. Speed can be over done a bit.          

[Nokomis449]

Another proud G owner here.  I've actually made several trips with myself, wife and 2 of her sisters - all of us 6' tall.  I explain to them that they can share a hair dryer between them, etc. and that if we're overweight when we get to the hangar, that I have sole discretion of what clothes will go and what will stay.  I'm bluffing of course, but it gets the point across.

I took a friend flying in it, and he caught the Mooney bug.  He ended up with a C model with a nice panel, fairly fresh engine, and 3 blade prop.  He was really surprised when we flew side by side for the first time - he couldn't keep up with me!  He blamed his 3 blade prop, and I blamed my speed mods.  

[M20F-1968]

On 11/21/2020 at 8:24 AM, wcb said:

And, my F can really only be compared to an E if it has the RayJay Turbo.  It is interesting through the years I see a whole lot more F's that got the Turbo than E's.  It would really be interesting to hear someone that has owned both.  According to Rising Up the cruise difference is 4 kts(how much is weight and how much is length?  Because other than that they are for all practical purposes the same plane.).  Who here has a RayJay E model with the numbers from say 15k feet.  I get about 160 kts tas in normal cruise at that level.  I can go to economy cruise to slow down or max cruise to pick up even more speed (best is roughly 170kts).

https://www.risingup.com/planespecs/info/airplane349.shtml

https://www.risingup.com/planespecs/info/airplane350.shtml

I have a highly modified 1968 F model.  Turbo normalized, modern airplane, 90 gallons of fuel, all applicable speed mods, 201 windshield, J model cowling, full flap, aileron, hinge and dorsal gap seals.  At 10,000 feet in summer, with everything forward = 168 kts, 10,000 feet at 75% power = 160 kts, 17,000 - 18,000 feet, 75% power 175-178 kts and LOP 170 - 174 kts.

John Breda

[Jim Peace]

1 hour ago, M20F-1968 said:

I have a highly modified 1968 F model. 

Do you fly it much?

[Hank]

3 hours ago, Nokomis449 said:

Another proud G owner here. . . I took a friend flying in it, and he caught the Mooney bug.  He ended up with a C model with a nice panel, fairly fresh engine, and 3 blade prop.  He was really surprised when we flew side by side for the first time - he couldn't keep up with me!  He blamed his 3 blade prop, and I blamed my speed mods.  

Hey, neighbor!

My C with 3-blade Hartzell trues out at 145-148 KTAS above 7000 msl, 50 ROP. What do you get? Call it 143 mphi, TAS varies with load, temperature, etc. This is decent performance at 10,000 with 20" /2500.

Edited December 25, 2020 by Hank

[M20F-1968]

59 minutes ago, Jim Peace said:

Do you fly it much?

The past few months have been devoted to some finishing of projects and routine maintenance.  I am thinking more and more about retirement so my flight time should increase.

[ArtVandelay]

Just remember, basically you’ll get the money you spent on buying the plane back when you sell it. So over time hangar, maintenance, insurance and fuel costs dwarf the cost of buying the plane.

[Nokomis449]

11 hours ago, Hank said:

Hey, neighbor!

My C with 3-blade Hartzell trues out at 145-148 KTAS above 7000 msl, 50 ROP. What do you get? Call it 143 mphi, TAS varies with load, temperature, etc. This is decent performance at 10,000 with 20" /2500.

Howdy, @Hank and Merry Christmas!

It was a few years ago when we flew together - he's a retired Marine Major and has since moved on to flying twin island hoppers in the Caribbean (like in the old tv series "Wings").  At that time my G had about 2,200 hrs on it and the 3-way GPS speed test showed 143kts true when averaged between 6k, 7k, and 8k feet.  While breaking in the new engine (a month ago), I got 142kts at 7k feet.  Once the engine appears broken in, I'll run the full test again and see what I get.

I don't think he had many speed mods on his C; I can remember seeing the big guppy opening up front.  I assume that's what gave me a slight advantage.  And it was slight - but you could almost hear the expression on his face when I said I'd throttle back so he could keep up.  

Maybe this spring after the engine finds its stride, we can meet up for a speed test and the loser (probably me) buys lunch.  That'll give me time to wax the leading edges and figure out a way to cheat (Note to self: consult with the Road Runner).

You've mentioned a restaurant at Eufaula (KEUF), or there's a few places up here we can hit.  I've heard that Bessemer (KEKY) has a pretty good restaurant, but haven't tried it.

[Hank]

Sounds like a plan, @Nokomis449!

Let's stay in touch.