Opinions wanted: Buying a project airplane

[carusoam]

Last known flight was 2018...

Odd specimen to cut the heart out of... and leave the rest...

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N6888N

See if you can get a copy of the logs... there may be some interesting reading to go with that...

Best regards,

-a-

[coinneach]

Logs prior to 1991 are gone, not reconstructed. Says he pulled it because it was run out; guessing he plans to do the overhaul himself for his homebuilt, didn't press for details when we talked this evening. Will definitely go over the current books before committing to anything.

[carusoam]

The hard part of not having logs...

It is difficult to know if an AD’d part was used in the center of its engine or deep inside its prop...

So... missing engine logs and prop logs don’t seem to be as big of challenge for this one... 
 

Does it still have the cowling to go with it?

Check with @Alan Fox to see what else you may need... Alan sell parts of less lucky planes...

If you get the opportunity to inspect it prior to purchase... do it...

A few hours mostly searching the hidden areas to make sure nothing crept inside and left corrosive materials behind... rent a mechanic with tools and familiarity, to move quickly without damaging stuff accidentally...

It would be a bummer to find a ruined spar... after you bought it...

Best regards,

-a-

 

[ArtVandelay]

I’m in a quandary, I don’t know whether to applaud you or recommend that you be committed to an insane asylum.

[Guest]

It still a project worth considering, you’d have a 4000 airframe with some missing history.  Proving compliance with ADs is easy, look for an engine and prop, install them do an Annual and you have a decent plane.  Used engines come up often.

If the airframe checks out make him a low offer and see what happens.

Clarence

[Alan Fox]

You guys are WAY oversimplifying this , This is a project that can easily take 10 years to finish , if ever.... If you like to tinker , and have unlimited time , it may keep you young for a while....   If you are in it to fly , buy a cheap flying C

[N201MKTurbo]

I just read this thread. My $13k Cessna Project is parked right next to it. I’ve seen it sitting there and wondered what the deal was. I’ll have to take a look at it.

[AerostarDriver]

11 hours ago, carusoam said:

That is not quite true...

And... not quite a way to make friends...

Mooneys are not magnets for corrosion.

They experience corrosion issues any aluminum plane can...

The pictures offered above are interesting from a metallurgical point of view, but are not representative of all Mooneys...

 

It would be interesting to know what conditions caused that wide spread surface corrosion...

Why it wasn’t cleaned up, and re-skinned...

 

What happened to that plane..?

Best regards,

-a-
 

 

Allow me to rephrase, a poorly treated Mooney can suffer from significate corrosion issues. I believe it was Alan Fox who said their was a process change in the 70s for extruded parts like the main spar and rear spar caps that made them less susceptible to corrosion. All metal airplanes suffer from corrosion issues and corrosion is not a Mooney specific problem. However, great care should be made when looking at any Airplane that is has been stored outside in a less then ideal condition. 

The pictured Mooney is a 71 E model, that the corrosion was found in the rear left spar inspection bay. It ran from under the baggage area, along the whole left side of rear spar, and forward along the gear attach rib in the left wing. It was my understand that a 66 wing was evaluated for a replacement and it was found to nearly as bad as the pictured 71.

Back on subject, the 68 C model to me looks to be a good candidate to have a 200 hp motor installed. Assuming its bones are good. 

Edited September 25, 2020 by AerostarDriver

[Hank]

29 minutes ago, AerostarDriver said:

Back on subject, the 68 C model to me looks to be a good candidate to have a 200 hp motor installed. Assuming its bones are good. 

Cs all have the 180hp O-360. the same fuselage construction with the 200hp IO-360 would be an E. Changing one engine for the other is not necessarily a simple job, paperwork-wise.

[AerostarDriver]

7 minutes ago, Hank said:

Cs all have the 180hp O-360. the same fuselage construction with the 200hp IO-360 would be an E. Changing one engine for the other is not necessarily a simple job, paperwork-wise.

Lasar has an STC to effectively mount any IO-360 on a C,D &G to convert them to 200HP including counter balanced options that do not have the restriction on 25 squared operation. 

[coinneach]

8 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

I’m in a quandary, I don’t know whether to applaud you or recommend that you be committed to an insane asylum.

 

[coinneach]

10 hours ago, carusoam said:

Does it still have the cowling to go with it?

It does, along with exhaust and baffles.

10 hours ago, carusoam said:

If you get the opportunity to inspect it prior to purchase... do it...

Of course. Buddy's A&P agreed to do the prebuy if I move forward.

[coinneach]

1 hour ago, AerostarDriver said:

Lasar has an STC to effectively mount any IO-360 on a C,D &G to convert them to 200HP including counter balanced options that do not have the restriction on 25 squared operation. 

I can't imagine that would be anything other than a tremendous pain in the nethers, converting from carb to injection.

[N201MKTurbo]

Don’t worry about corrosion. It’s laying on the ground at KCHD. It will never corrode.

[coinneach]

2 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Don’t worry about corrosion. It’s laying on the ground at KCHD. It will never corrode.

Pretty much what Russell (A&P) said. I'm a bit worried about tail integrity; they're not meant to be sitting like that for any length of time.

[N201MKTurbo]

1 minute ago, coinneach said:

Pretty much what Russell (A&P) said. I'm a bit worried about tail integrity; they're not meant to be sitting like that for any length of time.

It is probably Ok. I’ll take a look at it this afternoon. I could put a tire under the tail hook.

[steingar]

On 9/24/2020 at 10:59 AM, coinneach said:

I don't have the A&P cert, but I was a mech in the AF long ago. I also do all my own motorcycle wrenching and have rebuilt a few old cars. My guy is OK with "owner-assisted" as long as said owner isn't a complete idiot.

I still say run, unless your A&P is really cheap and has lots of free time.  Those two rarely go hand in hand.  If you want to fly, buy a flying M20c.  You'll spend less in the long run.  If you want to tinker, think about building a kit.  Way easier than trying to patch together something certificated.  There was another guy here who wanted to do the same thing.  He said he had a metal brake and was a good wrench, "how hard could it be?"  I don't think that ended well.

[EricJ]

On 9/24/2020 at 9:26 AM, coinneach said:

I was referring more to airplanes that are actually posted on TAP, ASO, Controller, etc. If the owner (abandoned or whatever) doesn't want to go through the trouble of selling, that's not a bird I want to check out anyway.

My point was mostly just that they're not particularly rare, and there's typically not a lot of value associated with them, so paying very much money at all for the one you're looking at would seem counter to the general market experience these days.   Stories pop up here from time to time of somebody trying to get rid of a complete airplane that just hasn't flown in a long time and it is similarly challenging.   So I think your mechanic is right that you'd be doing the guy a favor by taking it off his hands, but if you really want it you might have to pay a little bit to obtain the shell.  

The missing logs aren't too big of a deal if the AD compliance trail is still there from the last few annuals.   Otherwise AD compliance for every AD ever issued on the airplane or appliances has to be documented for the next annual.

Another thing to consider is where you're gonna tinker on this.   The waiting list for a hanger at CHD is a couple of years long right now, so you'd have to either move it or work on it on the ramp.   Neither is trivial.   And by a "couple of years" I mean, like, ten or something.   It's long.

 

 

Edited September 25, 2020 by EricJ

[ragedracer1977]

10 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I just read this thread. My $13k Cessna Project is parked right next to it. I’ve seen it sitting there and wondered what the deal was. I’ll have to take a look at it.

I knew it looked familiar

[ragedracer1977]

3 hours ago, EricJ said:

My point was mostly just that they're not particularly rare, and there's typically not a lot of value associated with them, so paying very much money at all for the one you're looking at would seem counter to the general market experience these days.   Stories pop up here from time to time of somebody trying to get rid of a complete airplane that just hasn't flown in a long time and it is similarly challenging.   So I think your mechanic is right that you'd be doing the guy a favor by taking it off his hands, but if you really want it you might have to pay a little bit to obtain the shell.  

The missing logs aren't too big of a deal if the AD compliance trail is still there from the last few annuals.   Otherwise AD compliance for every AD ever issued on the airplane or appliances has to be documented for the next annual.

Another thing to consider is where you're gonna tinker on this.   The waiting list for a hanger at CHD is a couple of years long right now, so you'd have to either move it or work on it on the ramp.   Neither is trivial.   And by a "couple of years" I mean, like, ten or something.   It's long.

 

 

I think it's closer to 20 years.  

[Skydancer2992]

A couple of months ago a Mooney was on Ebay for $9999. The only thing wrong with it was a corroded wing spar.

Great parts plane, I thought, if only there were a complete set of wings available, and of course, the time and logistics.

The plane sold in about 24 hours.

[N201MKTurbo]

1 hour ago, ragedracer1977 said:

I think it's closer to 20 years.  

25

I was one of the last to get complete rights to a hangar from the city. That wa# 1993

[coinneach]

I looked at the covered tiedown wait list for CHD and thought "That can't be right." Then I saw the hangar wait list and my head exploded.

I normally fly out of GYR so would probably move the airplane there once it's sorted. I'm equally inconveniently located from every towered field around PHX, ~30 minutes to all of them. Unfortunately PHX, which is 4 SM northeast of my house, doesn't want me taking up their space.

[N201MKTurbo]

BTW,  I put a tire under the tail and took away the busted plastic bucket. 
 

the airframe looks fine. No damage to the tail, except some hangar rash on the elevator. The sump drains are leaking, but they are easy to fix. One tank cover plate is leaking, but those are easy to fix. 
 

It can be done, but........

[coinneach]

2 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

BTW,  I put a tire under the tail and took away the busted plastic bucket. 
 

the airframe looks fine. No damage to the tail, except some hangar rash on the elevator. The sump drains are leaking, but they are easy to fix. One tank cover plate is leaking, but those are easy to fix. 
 

It can be done, but........

Thanks, I really appreciate you taking the time to look it over. I still haven't heard from the seller about a meetup tomorrow.