Foothill Aircraft Sales & Service report

[msh9]

Thought I would throw this out there to help future buyers like myself. Hopefully reviews of this sort are welcome here.

I bought an early model M20E earlier this year and used Foothill Aircraft Sales & Service at Cable Airport (KCCB) for a prebuy that I then rolled into an annual inspection. There is a much longer story on the why, how, and where with regard to how I, located in Salt Lake, ended up buying a M20E located at KCCB without seeing it in person first during a global pandemic, but here we are. In any case, I decided to use Foothill for a handful of reasons,

• They had never seen the aircraft before based on its logbooks
• They are a MSC
• I didn't know any mechanics personally that I could rely on in SoCal

Some other fun facts about this purchase, the prebuy occurred in late Feb., we closed mid-March, and the plane needed an annual done after March 31st. I am sure I could have worked something else out to get the plane to another mechanic, but having it all done in one place, by a MSC, at the plane's current location was attractive to me as a first time buyer. I now have ~50 tach hours on the plane since picking it up and feel like I can give a fair review.

In brief--

Pros,

• They caught a lot of issues that would have been otherwise expensive to fix later including a logbook review that found some missing work from a prop strike inspection. Props for attention to detail in some areas. The final word on this will be when I take it to either KNR in Evanston or Cascade Aero in Boise for its next annual, but I'm not expecting much between Foothill's work and some minor things I am having done throughout the year.
• Lots of written estimates, they helped with negotiating the purchase price and understanding how we were spending money.
• Large changes in cost were communicated and approved in writing. This included things like discovering that the Hartzell H1 governor was done for. We discussed and I approved the cost of buying a new PCU5000.

Cons,

• A little bit of nickel and dime action. I understand that running a repair station is hard and it's hard to make money in GA. It's also frustrating though to get charged near a full hour of labor for things like "tighten the set screw on the control yoke". That said, it was on the estimate so the person I really have to blame is myself for not knowing. Now I know.
• Poor communication. We used both phone calls and emails, stuff just got dropped on the floor. There were a couple items that I wanted looked at, that we discussed on both the phone and via email that never got done. Fortunately, none of the dropped items were airworthiness issues so it ultimately was fine. In another instance of poor communication, the original oil temperature gauge was inop. The original estimate included work to triage, this escalated into buying an overhauled unit from Air parts of Lock Haven. All fine, but I would have liked to be consulted before spending $600+ on my behalf on an overhauled unit. Given the choice I might have opted to replace the original cluster, but I wasn't given that choice at the time.
• Weird time saving choices. I had new AeroLed NAV/Strobe lights installed and paid for the time to run new shielded wiring, which I asked for and they recommended. On the other hand, they installed a uAvionix tailbeacon in the tail cone but did not run a ground wire for that. One of the few issues I have had with the plane in the last 50 hours occurred this week when the tailbeacon dropped out. It's in a local shop that I have developed more of a relationship with, we suspect the issue is just poor grounding of the unit and it should have been installed with a simple ground wire.

The annual was fairly large and include a number of items, so I could go on with the pro/con lists. I hope the above was illustrative though. Overall, I'm not entirely unhappy with the work, but not pleased either, call it in the grumpy middle. I have no complaints about the pre-buy and would recommend using them for a PPI in a pinch. I won't be taking the plane back to them for its next annual though either.

Hopefully this helps the next buyer in the SoCal / LA area make some more informed decisions. With 20/20 hindsight, I likely would have had Foothill fix a few key things on the plane and then move it back to the SLC area for its annual. That being said, COVID happened, they got most of what I wanted done, and everything needed to make the plane safe.

[carusoam]

Congrats on getting everything together msh...

What’s next?

A pic for your avatar would be great...

Best regards,

-a-

[Falcon Man]

msh9,

Your story is not uncommon. I have owned several Mooneys over many decades and had a number of mechanics mess things up. I live in Idaho and will not use any AP/IA for my Mooney other than Kerry McIntyre at KNR in Evanston, Wyoming. You cannot find any other person in the West who is as knowledgable as Kerry. No one at Cascade has the experience nor knowledge equal to Kerry IMHO.

Good luck,

Jeff

[sw1024]

I have used Foothill and had a rather negative experience as well.  Not here to bash them so I'll skip the details unless someone wants a recap.  Post-maintenance test flight was...how can i be nice..."exciting."  Not the good kind.

All in all, my experience with MSCs in general is pretty mixed.  As a first time Mooney owner, I thought that was the best course--did a pre-buy with one and turned it into an open check book annual (not Foothill).  The time they took and the cost was egregious.  Over the few years I've had my F, I've taken it to three different MSCs...two out of the three experiences weren't good.  The third was a minor maintenance issue so it really didn't count.  So Foothill isn't an outlier. 

After those experiences, I found an independent A&P/IA who has been nothing short of excellent.  Also owns a Mooney...so I'm sure that helps.  There are a number of well known MSCs that are great...the Maxwells, Top Guns, Lasars of the world all have great reputations.  But I think there are probably a fair amount of others that may have the MSC designation...but not necessarily the expertise or focus. 

Two out of the three MSCs I have given business to were also service centers for other brands as well...I guess when my 1967 F is sitting next to two Cirrus planes getting high dollar annuals/maintenance...it's easy to see where the focus goes. 

My two cents...admittedly not a huge sample size of experience to draw from.  But I'll keep going to my independent guy forever...great guy and the dude has worked on Sunday mornings to get me safe...and he always answers my calls.  

[gsxrpilot]

3 hours ago, Falcon Man said:

Your story is not uncommon. I have owned several Mooneys over many decades and had a number of mechanics mess things up. I live in Idaho and will not use any AP/IA for my Mooney other than Kerry McIntyre at KNR in Evanston, Wyoming. You cannot find any other person in the West who is as knowledgable as Kerry. No one at Cascade has the experience nor knowledge equal to Kerry IMHO.

 

I thought about taking my Moony to Kerry, but he seemed to have the very same opinion of himself and warned to be prepared for an expensive annual because no one knows as much as he does and will find a bunch of stuff that every other shop would have overlooked. Maybe I misunderstood him... but he won't be working on my Mooney. There are certainly other shops and mechanics in the West who know Mooneys as well as.

 

[Matt Ward]

Just now, gsxrpilot said:

I thought about taking my Moony to Kerry, but he seemed to have the very same opinion of himself and warned to be prepared for an expensive annual because no one knows as much as he does and will find a bunch of stuff that every other shop would have overlooked. Maybe I misunderstood him... but he won't be working on my Mooney. There are certainly other shops and mechanics in the West who know Mooneys as well as.

 

x2.

Kerry (politely?) told me not to bring my Mooney to him after I asked a couple questions about the work he was sure he'd have to do before ever seeing my plane.  The gist was we have to replace the donuts, we have to replace the alternator, and a few other things.  None of that was based on any sort of condition report - just a general view of "before I do your annual, you have to do these things, and they'll cost $4k".  A maximalist as Mike Busch would say.

 

[carusoam]

There were a few places my M20C wasn’t going back to....

It wasn’t the MSC wanted to change everything.... as much as everything needed to be changed....

My M20C was very worn out before I bought it...

Taking it to an expert that knows Mooneys can be eye opening... for better or for worse...

 

Kerry happens to be a very knowledgable Mooney resource...  he has written several maintenance papers regarding Mooneys...

https://www.knr-inc.com

 

If you don’t know how old your donuts are... it is written right on them...

If  you don’t know if they are worn out or not... there is a factory written procedure to measure them...

Some donuts look brand new... others look brand old... weathered, UV cracked, donuts are not the same as fresh donuts...
 

you can probably tell how old they are just by looking at them...

If they are the original donuts on the plane... there can be other expenses that go with them... the tubes don’t last for ever in that environment...

Some mechanics are often better for other people...

So don’t feel bad because you prefer a different type of mechanic or business when you are getting maintenance done on your plane...

Your plane, your money, take it to the place that is right for both... 

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

[SantosDumont]

Foothill saved me when I lost a mag at March AFB.  One of their MX flew over in his 150, popped my mag off, I rented a car and drove it to Aero Accessories.  Then they flew back over a couple days later to install the mag for me.

[flyer338]

I had my pre-buy done at a well known MSC and rolled it into an annual. I think they missed many things, especially regarding avionics function. The most egregious miss was the lack of a compass correction card - not a big deal, but definitely an airworthiness item.
I am not bashing them. I think the problem is a lack of skilled technicians. I am familiar with a very good FBO in a remote area of California. I have known the owner, who is also the only A&P/IA there, for 30 years. He is both competent and honest. But he cannot find an A&P to hire. He is at or near retirement age. When he goes, I fear for that aviation community.

 

[Davidv]

I think there are generally two types of MSCs.  There are those that only work on Mooney’s such as Maxwell (not too many I think), and those who are a Cessna, Cirrus, ect service center as well.  In my limited experience, you need to have much different expectations for the latter.
 

At one of these shops it’s very highly dependent on the mechanic who happens to be assigned to your aircraft.  They could have been working on Cirrus’ for the past month since there hasn’t been much Mooney business or never seen your model Mooney.  Unfortunately if you start asking about their experience you may get responses like “John has worked on a “number” of Mooney aircraft”.  A number could be 1 or could be 100.

Edited August 22, 2020 by Davidv

[211º]

I’ve come to the realization that maintenance is my responsibility- that I need to do the homework to determine the relevant ADs, the things that should be checked at annuals, and to be my airplane’s managing mechanic.

 

I don’t know how to fix everything in an airplane, but I do know that (with the right information) what to ask about and what to push.

 

I’ve found that mechanics will sometimes shrug at things that I thought should be addressed and concurrently “fix” things that are just fine.

 

At each annual I now make sure that nothing is fixed until the inspection is complete and I proactively provide a list of things that I’m aware of that should be addressed. This list is quite helpful as it also highlights the things that are not in their area that will need to be addressed by other specialists.

 

[msh9]

On 8/20/2020 at 3:34 PM, SantosDumont said:

Foothill saved me when I lost a mag at March AFB.  One of their MX flew over in his 150, popped my mag off, I rented a car and drove it to Aero Accessories.  Then they flew back over a couple days later to install the mag for me.

Agreed. I think I would recommend them in a pinch. I just don't think I would go to them for an annual next time.