Joys of ownership - looking for Whelen Power Supply

[shawnd]

18 minutes ago, MikeOH said:

"So, mister IA what are you going to charge me to look at the four bolts and move on (i.e. 'approve' the replacement)?". If the answer is >$25 he's signing off the annual with that discrepancy, I'm getting a ferry permit, posting the guy's name here, and NEVER going back to him.

Maybe it's the COVID talking, but I'm getting pretty damn tired of the government telling me it's THEIR job to provide for my safety.

Sorry, THAT is MY job.

Amen brother.

[shawnd]

After moving to a hangar, I happened to land across an A&P (his full time job is at a big airplane company in my area). Looks like he is logical and since its a direct replacement, asked for part and serial #s and if it checks out okay with testing, he will sign off.

 

[pwnel]

On 7/27/2020 at 9:26 PM, MikeOH said:

That's exactly the question I ask myself, "How am I going to handle if the IA at annual coughs up a fur ball over it?" Case by case basis, that's how.

In THIS case I'd risk it. IA says, "Your aircraft log shows you changed out the strobe power supply and that's NOT on the list of owner tasks.". Well, I'd start out showing him the Coleal letter.  If that proves unpersuasive, then I'd ask him what he would be looking for beyond the bolts are tight and the demonstrable fact that the strobes work.  I'm thinking he'd have nothing beyond that.  Next, "So, mister IA what are you going to charge me to look at the four bolts and move on (i.e. 'approve' the replacement)?". If the answer is >$25 he's signing off the annual with that discrepancy, I'm getting a ferry permit, posting the guy's name here, and NEVER going back to him.

Maybe it's the COVID talking, but I'm getting pretty damn tired of the government telling me it's THEIR job to provide for my safety.

Sorry, THAT is MY job.

Amen too.   In my case, my tail strobe blew after 35 years, so I replaced it recently with the LED Whelen Orion.  In doing so I bypassed the Whelen strobe power supply in the tail, but left it there.   Removing it and updating the W&B, although super simple, is something I'd just leave to be done at annual.  As an electronics engineer I documented how it was wired with reference to the wiring diagram in my service manual.  So at annual time even a fussy IA can inspect my work and place his signature next to mine in the logbook entry.  And they get to charge me an hour's labor for the privilege of removing four screws and doing paperwork. And if they don't want to - I'll follow the MikeOH strategy above.

Edited July 29, 2020 by pwnel

[jetdriven]

ive got a syncable power supply

 

[OR75]

On 7/27/2020 at 6:26 PM, MikeOH said:

That's exactly the question I ask myself, "How am I going to handle if the IA at annual coughs up a fur ball over it?" Case by case basis, that's how.

In THIS case I'd risk it. IA says, "Your aircraft log shows you changed out the strobe power supply and that's NOT on the list of owner tasks.". Well, I'd start out showing him the Coleal letter.  If that proves unpersuasive, then I'd ask him what he would be looking for beyond the bolts are tight and the demonstrable fact that the strobes work.  I'm thinking he'd have nothing beyond that.  Next, "So, mister IA what are you going to charge me to look at the four bolts and move on (i.e. 'approve' the replacement)?". If the answer is >$25 he's signing off the annual with that discrepancy, I'm getting a ferry permit, posting the guy's name here, and NEVER going back to him.

Maybe it's the COVID talking, but I'm getting pretty damn tired of the government telling me it's THEIR job to provide for my safety.

Sorry, THAT is MY job.

How do you get a ferry permit ? I believe it involves talking to the FSDO 

[steingar]

I had the exact same issue, lost the power supply on one side.  It was a pretty easy decision, get the LEDs, save weight and get brighter strobes, or get another power supply.  By the way, the one on the other side is just as old and could break as well, as could the used one you buy from Ebay with no warranty.  I am very glad I put on the LEDs. I'm just sad I didn't buy them from @OSUAV8TER, he sells them cheaper.

[shawnd]

Thanks. Yeah, its a risk as far as the conditions of the P/S goes but cheaper and quicker for the time being - gets me back up in the air.  If this attempt fails, then LEDs it is. Keeping an eye on Orion 650E series for wingtips and Orion 500 for the tail's position & strobe. But got a question: 

 

Mooneys M20Ks are not listed on the Orion STCs from the product pages, it covers M20 B-G:

• https://flywat.com/collections/aircraft-wingtip-horizontal-stabilizer-lights/products/or6501r
• https://flywat.com/collections/aircraft-wingtip-horizontal-stabilizer-lights/products/or5001v

STCs:

1. https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0080/5598/0128/files/10055068_CERT_REV_0_20151009.pdf?3623
2. https://www.whelen.com/pb/Aviation/STC/STC SA800EA.pdf

The power supply that I pulled out of my aircraft has FAA-PMA/STC SA800EA in big letters on the label, but based on the doc it covers only M20 B-G?

Both of STCs do specify type rating of 2A3 for the Mooney which is what the M20K are. Thoughts?

 

Edit: maybe @kortopates can chime in since he referred to this problem in the LED thread

 

[kortopates]

1 hour ago, shawnd said:

Thanks. Yeah, its a risk as far as the conditions of the P/S goes but cheaper and quicker for the time being - gets me back up in the air.  If this attempt fails, then LEDs it is. Keeping an eye on Orion 650E series for wingtips and Orion 500 for the tail's position & strobe. But got a question: 

 

Mooneys M20Ks are not listed on the Orion STCs from the product pages, it covers M20 B-G:

• https://flywat.com/collections/aircraft-wingtip-horizontal-stabilizer-lights/products/or6501r
• https://flywat.com/collections/aircraft-wingtip-horizontal-stabilizer-lights/products/or5001v

STCs:

1. https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0080/5598/0128/files/10055068_CERT_REV_0_20151009.pdf?3623
2. https://www.whelen.com/pb/Aviation/STC/STC SA800EA.pdf

The power supply that I pulled out of my aircraft has FAA-PMA/STC SA800EA in big letters on the label, but based on the doc it covers only M20 B-G?

Both of STCs do specify type rating of 2A3 for the Mooney which is what the M20K are. Thoughts?

 

Edit: maybe @kortopates can chime in since he referred to this problem in the LED thread

 

Correct, the Whelen STC doesn't give us the authority to install them on the K. That leaves us 2 other options. A field approval (337) as a major mod or A&P signoff as a minor mod. You should call your local FSDO or talk to your IA, but these days most FSDO's are accepting the practice of installing them as a minor mod; but it really comes down to the opinion of  your supervising A&P or IA who will be signing off on it, and its best to go by the person that does your annuals - your IA. So its really only their opinion that counts. 

[OSUAV8TER]

If your A&P thinks that a field approval is necessary to install Orion 650Es and the Orion 500, I think you need to find a new mechanic. They meet the FAA TSO for position and anti-collision light certification and exceed what you have. They do not appreciably affect aerodynamics, weight and balance, or functionality of the aircraft. A major modification is too much and I bet the feds will reject a field approval and tell you to do a minor mod.

[Niko182]

1 minute ago, OSUAV8TER said:

If your A&P thinks that a field approval is necessary to install Orion 650Es and the Orion 500, I think you need to find a new mechanic. They meet the FAA TSO for position and anti-collision light certification and exceed what you have. They do not appreciably affect aerodynamics, weight and balance, or functionality of the aircraft. A major modification is too much and I bet the feds will reject a field approval and tell you to do a minor mod.

I dont think the LED's are the issue. I think the issue is removal of the power supply. If you have one in the tail it'll make a difference on your arm for sure.

[OSUAV8TER]

2 minutes ago, Niko182 said:

I dont think the LED's are the issue. I think the issue is removal of the power supply. If you have one in the tail it'll make a difference on your arm for sure.

Absolutely. You have to do a new W&B when you pull this old stuff out and put a new one in. It's a 2-3 hour job.

[shawnd]

Alright - thanks everyone, let's hope the P/S swap works. Otherwise, LEDs next. And yes W/B is a pretty clear requirement.

[ZuluZulu]

After LED replacements are installed, I should have two wingtip strobes, a tail strobe, three power supplies, red and green nav lights, and two 5-year-old PAR 36 LEDs (currently unsure if taxi or landing) in a few weeks.

[shawnd]

Well folks, it works! @EricJ's lit up the strobe light and my neighbor A&P was happy. And me too  Thank you for all the help and support as always. I will keep a few spares just in case as I am looking to start IFR training sometime in the near future and want to avoid extended downtime.

[gsxrpilot]

Why does it always seem that so many people have problems with the shop doing their annual? Do people really wait until time for the annual arrives, and then pull out the yellow pages looking for an IA to get it done? 

I probably maintain a better relationship with my shop than with my wife. I wouldn't think of taking my plane in for an annual unless that shop had done the entire years worth of work on my plane leading up to the annual. In Sales we say, "Never ask a questions you don't already know the answer." And I'd never want my plane to go in for annual where I didn't know exactly how the shop would react to every conceivable issue. I had a local guy here in Denver do an oil change and change out a fuel flow transducer for me. He mentioned that he could do the annual for me as well. I told him that I don't sleep with someone on the first date and likewise wouldn't have anyone annual my airplane unless we'd got to know each other first. And that meant that he'd have to do a years worth of maintenance before he got to do the annual. He thought about it for a moment and decided that was actually better for him as well. Shops are nervous about doing an annual for a new customer as well. They don't know how the owner will react, or if they'll even pay the bill on time without complaining. 

So no IA is going to complain about my LED lights and how they're documented in the logs, because no IA is going to get that intimate with my airplane until long after we both know how he'd react to those LED's.

[Eight8Victor]

Since shawnd had success here, I'm going to piggyback on his post. I need a A490 as pictured. 

Thanks,

Steve

[ZuluZulu]

1 hour ago, Eight8Victor said:

Since shawnd had success here, I'm going to piggyback on his post. I need a A490 as pictured. 

Thanks,

Steve

On 7/30/2020 at 12:26 PM, ZuluZulu said:

After LED replacements are installed, I should have two wingtip strobes, a tail strobe, three power supplies, red and green nav lights, and two 5-year-old PAR 36 LEDs (currently unsure if taxi or landing) in a few weeks.

Still coming. This one is from the tail strobe, the others haven’t been removed yet. 

[EricJ]

2 hours ago, Eight8Victor said:

Since shawnd had success here, I'm going to piggyback on his post. I need a A490 as pictured. 

Thanks,

Steve

I'll send you a PM.