1966 M20E Forever Plane

[EchoMax]

Former lurker, first-time poster.  I just changed my moniker to EchoMax, and you will see why.

I am a 60-yo student pilot based at KBLF in the Blue Ridge mountains and was poised to take my checkride until Corona virus and hip surgery intervened, but I will be in the left seat again soon.  As soon as I get my PPL, I’m going to start intensive IFR training.

I have a great partner.  (“Choose your partner like you choose your wife, only more carefully,” as my dad used to say.)  Together, we own a well-equipped 1983 Beech Sundowner, which is sort of like Beech’s version of a Cessna 172, only heavier, roomier, and harder to land.

We bought it for a fair price and then added a few things (electronic engine monitor, AOA, new tires and battery, etc) and fixed a few things for something like $15-20K, money that we probably won’t get back when we sell—live and learn. This plane has some significant limitations, as we have found.  My partner took his wife on a short ~150 mi trip and faced 40kt headwinds.  Cars on the interstate were making better groundspeed.  What’s the point of flying if not to be faster than driving? Also it takes forever to climb to 8000 ft.  Time to trade up.

First step:  establish the mission.

Fortunately, we both share the same mission:  visits to family and friends, typically 150-500 miles with usually no more than one passenger plus the pilot, as well as local flights for fun.  We want what many people want:  an inexpensive, fast, fuel-efficient, well-maintained, frequently-flown, well-equipped IFR-ready airplane with engine monitor, decent AP, and GPS.  Of course, no plane satisfies all eight of these attributes, but seven-out-of-eight is possible if one ignores “inexpensive”.  Perhaps “good value” should be substituted for “inexpensive”, because something may have a high price and still be a good value.

Second step:  establish the budget.

I searched for the plane I really wanted.  Unfortunately it was $400K+.  I could afford this, but even the insurance would be out of reach for my partner, and I like having a partner, so I set a budget of $100-150K.  Setting aside 20% for upgrades and repairs, this leaves $80-120K for the purchase price.

It didn’t take long to figure out that a Mooney M20 would best serve our mission and budget.  I first considered the M20K but decided that we don’t want to fly at altitudes that require oxygen or risk hypoxia and therefore don’t really need turbo with its greater complexity and higher maintenance costs.  So the M20J became our target.

At first, I didn’t even consider vintage Mooneys, but soon realized that the short-body C or E with tiny rear seats would fit our mission just fine because we don’t expect to fly much with more than two people.  

Yesterday I put a deposit down on Bob Belville’s 1966 M20E that seems to hit all the right notes, is within our budget, and is conveniently located at KMRN, only 40 Mooney minutes away from us at KBLF. This beautiful bird is completely tricked out with new paint and interior.

Unfortunately, Bob passed away yesterday.  I never had the pleasure to meet him, but I understand he is revered among Mooniacs.  My condolences to his wife Nancy.

Bob has described his E as “Heavy and slow. (900# UL, ~155 ktas at 75% but I fly LOP for economy and range... ~140 ktas @ ~8.0 gph.)”.  Those numbers work for me.

Bob’s ad is at https://mooneyspace.com/topic/33992-66-20e-110000/?tab=comments#comment-578910. Is there anything to add to this aircraft? Last fall he wrote, “I had planned to do the STEC 3100 but now nothing seems worth the trouble. Lynn wants to replace flaps which came back from paint with some twist...”  Maybe upgrade the AP to an STEC 3100 at some point it when it becomes available for the E?  Upgrade the audio panel from the GMA340? Neither seems to me particularly necessary or cost-effective at this time.

I’m optimistic that there will be no major surprises during the pre-buy inspection, but we’ll see.

Some say that no 1966E is worth this amount of money ($110K), but I am comfortable with the price given the condition of the aircraft.  What do others think?

This was Bob’s forever plane and probably will be mine too. Thanks to all of the MS members for the invaluable information and advice here in the forum.

[gsxrpilot]

N943RW is a special airplane. Be nice to her, keep her flying regularly, keep her current with appropriate upgrades. 

Don't screw this up... she's special.

[gsxrpilot]

I should add, you'll need to take her to Oshkosh regularly so she can see her friends.

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard Echo M!

That is a great weight lifted off the minds of many...

N943RW is a perfect forever-plane... Pilot Perfect!

Enjoy getting to know her...

 

If you haven’t already... consider Getting transition training to learn all of the small nuances that come with every plane...
 

Let us know if you want recommendations... 

Best regards,

-a-

[Marauder]

Former lurker, first-time poster.  I just changed my moniker to EchoMax, and you will see why.

I am a 60-yo student pilot based at KBLF in the Blue Ridge mountains and was poised to take my checkride until Corona virus and hip surgery intervened, but I will be in the left seat again soon.  As soon as I get my PPL, I’m going to start intensive IFR training.

I have a great partner.  (“Choose your partner like you choose your wife, only more carefully,” as my dad used to say.)  Together, we own a well-equipped 1983 Beech Sundowner, which is sort of like Beech’s version of a Cessna 172, only heavier, roomier, and harder to land.

We bought it for a fair price and then added a few things (electronic engine monitor, AOA, new tires and battery, etc) and fixed a few things for something like $15-20K, money that we probably won’t get back when we sell—live and learn. This plane has some significant limitations, as we have found.  My partner took his wife on a short ~150 mi trip and faced 40kt headwinds.  Cars on the interstate were making better groundspeed.  What’s the point of flying if not to be faster than driving? Also it takes forever to climb to 8000 ft.  Time to trade up.

First step:  establish the mission.

Fortunately, we both share the same mission:  visits to family and friends, typically 150-500 miles with usually no more than one passenger plus the pilot, as well as local flights for fun.  We want what many people want:  an inexpensive, fast, fuel-efficient, well-maintained, frequently-flown, well-equipped IFR-ready airplane with engine monitor, decent AP, and GPS.  Of course, no plane satisfies all eight of these attributes, but seven-out-of-eight is possible if one ignores “inexpensive”.  Perhaps “good value” should be substituted for “inexpensive”, because something may have a high price and still be a good value.

Second step:  establish the budget.

I searched for the plane I really wanted.  Unfortunately it was $400K+.  I could afford this, but even the insurance would be out of reach for my partner, and I like having a partner, so I set a budget of $100-150K.  Setting aside 20% for upgrades and repairs, this leaves $80-120K for the purchase price.

It didn’t take long to figure out that a Mooney M20 would best serve our mission and budget.  I first considered the M20K but decided that we don’t want to fly at altitudes that require oxygen or risk hypoxia and therefore don’t really need turbo with its greater complexity and higher maintenance costs.  So the M20J became our target.

At first, I didn’t even consider vintage Mooneys, but soon realized that the short-body C or E with tiny rear seats would fit our mission just fine because we don’t expect to fly much with more than two people.  

Yesterday I put a deposit down on Bob Belville’s 1966 M20E that seems to hit all the right notes, is within our budget, and is conveniently located at KMRN, only 40 Mooney minutes away from us at KBLF. This beautiful bird is completely tricked out with new paint and interior.

Unfortunately, Bob passed away yesterday.  I never had the pleasure to meet him, but I understand he is revered among Mooniacs.  My condolences to his wife Nancy.

Bob has described his E as “Heavy and slow. (900# UL, ~155 ktas at 75% but I fly LOP for economy and range... ~140 ktas @ ~8.0 gph.)”.  Those numbers work for me.

Bob’s ad is at https://mooneyspace.com/topic/33992-66-20e-110000/?tab=comments#comment-578910. Is there anything to add to this aircraft? Last fall he wrote, “I had planned to do the STEC 3100 but now nothing seems worth the trouble. Lynn wants to replace flaps which came back from paint with some twist...”  Maybe upgrade the AP to an STEC 3100 at some point it when it becomes available for the E?  Upgrade the audio panel from the GMA340? Neither seems to me particularly necessary or cost-effective at this time.

I’m optimistic that there will be no major surprises during the pre-buy inspection, but we’ll see.

Some say that no 1966E is worth this amount of money ($110K), but I am comfortable with the price given the condition of the aircraft.  What do others think?

This was Bob’s forever plane and probably will be mine too. Thanks to all of the MS members for the invaluable information and advice here in the forum.

 

Bob & I spent way more on our vintage Mooneys than we should have. The only person who I think has gone further is John Breda who essentially turned his F into a J.

 

Bob was dedicated to not only maintaining his E but to bring it to modern standards. I would be surprised anything shows up on the pre buy.

 

I spoke to Lynn yesterday and learned you were moving forward. If you get buyer’s remorse, please let us know.

The reason for my call to Lynn was that I have a buyer, cash in hand, ready to swoop in.

 

As for the plane, there is always something that you can add or change. I would fly her a bit and see what changes you want to make in order to make it yours.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[Skates97]

Adding to what has already been said, please stop by here often as well. I'm sure everyone would love to hear about your adventures in that beautiful bird.

[Ross Taylor]

We also have a '66 E, which is insured for 75k...and we love her...but your soon-to-be E is in a whole new class.  I'm sorry to hear about the owner's passing (I didn't know him, so feel awkward calling him by his first name), but I am glad his E's going to someone who will continue the stewardship and love.

[EchoMax]

It’s a heavy burden, but we will try to be worthy and not screw this up.

N943RW is "special", and we pledge to "be nice to her, keep her flying regularly, and keep her current with appropriate upgrades". We fly our current ride once a month or more frequently and have an ample budget for maintenance, upgrades, and repair. As a bonus, we are only 40 minutes away from AGL at KMRN and can continue maintenance with Lynn Mace who personally has almost a decade of experience with this particular aircraft.

Helpfully, my partner is a retired military pilot who is very meticulous by nature and obsessive about maintenance and operational stuff.

As far as transition training, my most excellent local flight instructor (Randy McCallister/KPSK) has several decades of Mooney experience as a pilot, mechanic, and owner.  He owns and maintains a J and did his commercial training in an E.

Oshkosh awaits.

[HRM]

14 hours ago, EchoMax said:

Yesterday I put a deposit down on Bob Belville’s 1966 M20E that seems to hit all the right notes, is within our budget, and is conveniently located at KMRN, only 40 Mooney minutes away from us at KBLF. This beautiful bird is completely tricked out with new paint and interior.

Unfortunately, Bob passed away yesterday.  I never had the pleasure to meet him, but I understand he is revered among Mooniacs.  My condolences to his wife Nancy.

 

This is the first I have heard of both of these items, so shocked and saddened at the passing of Bob, he was just a great guy.

As for his E, it is hands down one of the finest E's flying--Bob treated it like his child, lots of mods, flown everywhere regularly, and just a beauty.

 

[GDGR]

Reading this made me tear up.... It’s like Bob completed his mission to find the perfect “Forever Home” for his beautiful aircraft, then upgraded his wings to his own Forever set. 
As everyone has said, treat her well, fly her often. And when you’re flying solo, there’s no doubt you’ll have Bob there in the right seat with you. 
Safe travels, and hoping to see both of you at Oshkosh sometime soon. 

[rbridges]

I was wondering who bought Bob's plane. I sat inside it to check out the 930. It's a beautiful bird for sure. 155 slow is an oxymoron for an E. That gets you into speeds of many J's. As far as missions, yours is similar to mine. My wife and I are officially empty nesters as of last year. The C is perfect except for a lack of air conditioning. Lol. 

I'm slowly heading down the road of throwing money at a plane that doesn't make sense financially, but I don't see myself getting another plane.  The guys on this forum have been invaluable with info and are more than glad to spend your money. 

Anyway, congrats and hope you remain a fixture on this forum. 

Edited July 4, 2020 by rbridges

[KLRDMD]

17 minutes ago, rbridges said:

The C is perfect except for a lack of air conditioning.

Make it perfect. I have one in my Bonanza and it works well.

http://www.arcticaircooler.com/product-p/rac-200-1-12d.htm

[rbridges]

41 minutes ago, KLRDMD said:

Make it perfect. I have one in my Bonanza and it works well.

http://www.arcticaircooler.com/product-p/rac-200-1-12d.htm

Thanks. I checked those out, and I believe someone said a 14v system just doesn't have enough juice.  Otherwise, I probably would have done the same. 

Edited July 4, 2020 by rbridges

[Jerry 5TJ]

The company does make a 14 volt version of their AC system.  It’s possible that a 60A alternator could power it along with the day VFR equipment.  

[Danb]

Arguably one of the nicest E models in the country. I can’t believe it did not sell in the first day it was available. Bob took meticulous care of his plane. Without going over all the improvements made to his plane, you already know about this if I were in the market for an E I’d love to have Bob’s E. 
Hopefully you will give the same attention to detail to his plane as Bob did. 
Welcome to the family, enjoy your new plane, BTW it’s worth more than your paying. Good luck and have fun Bob will be happy to look down on N943RW while it’s soaring the sky’s as he did 

[David Lloyd]

Told the wifey that a man in Morganton had surprised everyone by putting his beautiful Mooney up for sale.  Showed her a couple pictures and knowing the price, she said I should sell mine and buy Bob's plane.  One of the best E's around.  Matched Bob exactly.

[KLRDMD]

2 hours ago, rbridges said:

Thanks. I checked those out, and I believe someone said a 14v system just doesn't have enough juice.  Otherwise, I probably would have done the same. 

I have the 14V system and it does take a little planning but works fine. I have a 70A alternator so I turn the A/C off when I raise or lower the landing gear or flaps. That works fine. I probably don't have to but I feel better not stressing the electrical system.

Edited July 4, 2020 by KLRDMD

[rbridges]

6 minutes ago, KLRDMD said:

I have the 14V system and it does take a little planning but works fine. I have a 70A alternator so I turn the A/C off when I raise or lower the landing gear or flaps. That works fine. I probably don't have to but I feel better not stressing the electrical system.

No kidding. I assumed yours was a 28v system. I'll look into it again. I based my statement on some stuff I had googled. You know if it's on the internet, it has to be true.  

[KLRDMD]

2 hours ago, rbridges said:

No kidding. I assumed yours was a 28v system. I'll look into it again. I based my statement on some stuff I had googled. You know if it's on the internet, it has to be true.  

I had the 28V version in my Baron but the Bonanza is 14V. The 28V works better but I'm happy with the one have now. It isn't modern auto A/C quality/cooling but it sure is better than nothing.

[MB65E]

Pull the trigger for sure. Nice to have an airplane partner to share it with too. Bob added so much to the community here.  What a treat to fly on in his pride and joy. As a total package, I don’t think there is another E that checks so may boxes. 
Good luck with the acquisition.

-Matt

[EchoMax]

I found these while perusing Bob's old posts here on MooneySpace. Last August he wrote, "My planes have never had names but since we painted the plane last year I've been trying to find an appropriate moniker. "The Gypsy Rose" seems to fit the Red trim and our mission. In addition my late sister ran a restaurant by that name." And then in October he wrote, "Having a little MS fun on a rainy day... Renewed my Medical Certificate Third Class yesterday. Guess that means all youse guys waiting for me to turn Gypsy Rose loose will have to wait a while. "

If you inherit a beloved family pet, you should not change its name.  Similarly, in honor and memory of Bob, N943RW (aka "The Gypsy Rose") will retain the name Bob gave her!

7 hours ago, KLRDMD said:

I have the 14V system and it does take a little planning but works fine.

Even if it were free, N943RC won't be getting A/C anytime soon.  We don't want the extra weight and the decrease in speed and useful load. In Arizona you have real heat, but hangared at KBLF in the Blue Ridge mountains, the nearest town is Bluefield, WV which prides itself on its hospitable climate. Since 1938 the Chamber of Commerce has given out free lemonade when the temperature tops 90 °F, typically two or three days each year. The city's motto is, "Nature's air-conditioned city, where the summer spends the winter."

[M20F-1968]

On 7/3/2020 at 7:23 PM, Marauder said:

 

Bob & I spent way more on our vintage Mooneys than we should have. The only person who I think has gone further is John Breda who essentially turned his F into a J.

 

For what it is worth, I had mine my F professionally appraised given that it highly modified.  The appraisal was $225,000  when first appraised in 2015 and went up to the mid-$200,000 range when it was re-appraised by the same appraiser.  Since then I have put in a GTX-345 and CIES senders.  

Yes, a Vintage Mooney can be worth much more than book value but you have to do the work first.

Just like the saying goes, "The is money in aviation, I know because I put it there."

John Breda

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

[M20F-1968]

Damn typos:

Just like the saying goes, "There is money in aviation, I know because I put it there."

John Breda

[steingar]

Congrats to the OP and thanks for posting up. That aircraft is well known here. Two ways to get a “deal” on an airplane. One if go get one rough and restore it. A poster did that here, took a long time and a lot of money. The other is to buy one someone else has fixed up. Had I the money I’d be flying that aircraft. It is one of the finest examples of the type flying.

 

[skydvrboy]

The only thing I could think of adding to Bob’s plane is fuel... Lots and lots of FUEL!

OK, maybe a bit of oil too.