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GTN approach

I'm having trouble figuring this out. I'm enroute to a destination. I select procedures and approach. I select an approach but oops. I pushed the wrong one. How do I back out of it and select the one I want? 

The above was attempted to be posted by @rotorman but didn't post, so here is the answer:

If you tapped the wrong approach, you will see "Approach " on the Procedures Page.  The wrong approach will be in that box.  Tap that box and all the approaches will present themselves.  Choose the approach you want and you're off and running.

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Yep. You can, but you don't need to tap the Approach. You can also just pretend it's not there. Tap the airport and load the new approach just like you did the first time. It will replace the one you have,

You can use the same two methods for changing the IAF. I like starting over for a new approach as I do in the video, but prefer tapping the Approach if I'm keeping but modifying it. But that's strictly personal preference.

 

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Either way, when you select another approach the first will be replaced as it will only allow one approach to be entered.

So many great things about these navigators, yet the pilot guide book lacks the information to use it.

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1 hour ago, David Lloyd said:

So many great things about these navigators, yet the pilot guide book lacks the information to use it.

I think the two just  go hand in hand. Too many functions and ways to do something to cover all possibilities. These are not VHF nav/comms  with limited functions where we can just hop in and figure it out on the fly. There is a definite learning curve which almost never ends. I did my last IPC with a flying club CFII who teaches regularly with GTN and I taught him something he didn't know about the GTN*. On the flip side, I checked out someone in a G1000 aircraft and he taught me something I didn't know.

 

[*Coincidentally, loading a second approach by using the catalog :)]

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Just goes to show, there is almost always more than one way to do/get what you want with the GTN series.  That let's each pilot find the way they prefer rather than sitting there wondering, "how do I get it to do that?" because there is only one way to do it.

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Thanks for reposting that Don. I tried to delete it because I finally figured it out.  

I agree wholeheartedly with midlifeflyer about the long learning curve on this system. And the problem really is exacerbated with the low number of hours most GA pilots fly, myself included. Plane & Pilot reported the average as 35 hrs in 2017. If you then consider how much of that is on instruments, how many of those pilot owning aircraft should even consider updating their legacy panels?  Staying competent on the GTN or any of the other modern systems  is a perishable skill even if school trained. To think one can just pick it up on the fly is folly. With no good practical way to practice outside the cockpit (the Garmin trainer app is a joke) I don't see how these types of systems are appropriate for use by a large portion of the average GA pilots. Yet most new aircraft are so equipped. Those considering upgrading should consider how they realistically plan to use their aircraft. These systems are great to use, but the number of ways to screw up is huge. And attempting to straighten things out, flying single pilot, in the stressful environment of an IFR approach going bad is not a place anyone wants to be.

 

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2 hours ago, rotorman said:

 

 

 

Thanks for reposting that Don. I tried to delete it because I finally figured it out.  

I agree wholeheartedly with midlifeflyer about the long learning curve on this system. And the problem really is exacerbated with the low number of hours most GA pilots fly, myself included. Plane & Pilot reported the average as 35 hrs in 2017. If you then consider how much of that is on instruments, how many of those pilot owning aircraft should even consider updating their legacy panels?  Staying competent on the GTN or any of the other modern systems  is a perishable skill even if school trained. To think one can just pick it up on the fly is folly. With no good practical way to practice outside the cockpit (the Garmin trainer app is a joke) I don't see how these types of systems are appropriate for use by a large portion of the average GA pilots. Yet most new aircraft are so equipped. Those considering upgrading should consider how they realistically plan to use their aircraft. These systems are great to use, but the number of ways to screw up is huge. And attempting to straighten things out, flying single pilot, in the stressful environment of an IFR approach going bad is not a place anyone wants to be.

 

As an instructor who teaches this stuff all the time and with the benefit of having all of it in my own airplane, a lot of the GTN is pretty intuitive and follows what Garmin has been doing with both their handhelds, panel mounted hardware, and iPad since the Aera 796 came out many years ago.  I find the GTN iPad apps extremely useful and can be used to simulate various flight scenarios by setting up a flight plan with various airspeeds and altitudes and then flying it on the sim.  Garmin just in the past two weeks has had several free online Webinars on the use of the GTN using scenarios with follow along on your own iPad.  I have attended both of them and found them to be very instructional for new users.  They even had a good one on VNAV operations.  While I don't see any in the near future, here is a history of what they have done:

https://www.garmin.com/en-US/aviation/webinars/

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10 minutes ago, donkaye said:

As an instructor who teaches this stuff all the time and with the benefit of having all of it in my own airplane, a lot of the GTN is pretty intuitive and follows what Garmin has been doing with both their handhelds, panel mounted hardware, and iPad since the Aera 796 came out many years ago.  

I think "intuitive" is in the eyes of the beholder but agree completely that the complete line has followed a similar flow since the handhelds and have been saying that for years. You can even go back to the 196 handheld.

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1 hour ago, donkaye said:

As an instructor who teaches this stuff all the time and with the benefit of having all of it in my own airplane, a lot of the GTN is pretty intuitive and follows what Garmin has been doing with both their handhelds, panel mounted hardware, and iPad since the Aera 796 came out many years ago.  I find the GTN iPad apps extremely useful and can be used to simulate various flight scenarios by setting up a flight plan with various airspeeds and altitudes and then flying it on the sim.  Garmin just in the past two weeks has had several free online Webinars on the use of the GTN using scenarios with follow along on your own iPad.  I have attended both of them and found them to be very instructional for new users.  They even had a good one on VNAV operations.  While I don't see any in the near future, here is a history of what they have done:

https://www.garmin.com/en-US/aviation/webinars/

I am using my windows 10 for the Garmin trainer. Everytime I start it it puts me at KSLE as a starting point. I can't find any way to change it. So I have been flying it to where I want to train at 500 kts wasting a lot of time. Is there away to initialize it to a particular airport?

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What trips me up are amendments to the flight plan while cruising along. Sometimes they are simple and I can punch the changes right in, but other times they can be a bit complicated at which time I get a little flustered, especially in IMC.

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What trips me up are amendments to the flight plan while cruising along. Sometimes they are simple and I can punch the changes right in, but other times they can be a bit complicated at which time I get a little flustered, especially in IMC.

I find it easier to enter new route into Garmin Pilot and then just transfer it.

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1 hour ago, flyboy0681 said:

What trips me up are amendments to the flight plan while cruising along. Sometimes they are simple and I can punch the changes right in, but other times they can be a bit complicated at which time I get a little flustered, especially in IMC.

If a waypoint is being added, just highlight the waypoint after which the new waypoint is being inserted, type in the new waypoint, and you're done.  If an airway is being added, you need to add an entry point, then associated airways are displayed, pick the airway you want and exit point, then load the airway,  It couldn't be easier.

If you're on the map page and need to change the flight plan, rather than go to the Home page and tap the Flight Plan icon, as a short cut, just tap the CDI bar and go directly to the Flight plan Page.

Just with those two pieces of information all flight plan amendments should be easily accomplished.

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2 hours ago, rotorman said:

I am using my windows 10 for the Garmin trainer. Everytime I start it it puts me at KSLE as a starting point. I can't find any way to change it. So I have been flying it to where I want to train at 500 kts wasting a lot of time. Is there away to initialize it to a particular airport?

When you start, and I think whenever you go to the Home page, you'll see a Demo button (if I remember right).  Touch that and I think there is a Nav? button that allows you to set the starting location (haven't done that in awhile).  You can also change the rate of climb/descent.  I know it's there, I just can't remember where.

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1 hour ago, flyboy0681 said:

What trips me up are amendments to the flight plan while cruising along. Sometimes they are simple and I can punch the changes right in, but other times they can be a bit complicated at which time I get a little flustered, especially in IMC.

If the change includes direct to a waypoint that is not in my flightplan, first I'll make sure I know where they want me to go after that point.  Then I'll just use D-->, enter the new waypoint, activate, and start navigating.  Then I'll go back into my flightplan and modify it to include the new waypoint and any other changes they wanted.  Then, just to make sure, I'll select that waypoint in the flightplan, hit D --> again, and activate it.

If you'll give us an example of what you consider complicated, maybe we can give you about 10 different ways that 10 of us use. :D

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10 minutes ago, Bob - S50 said:

When you start, and I think whenever you go to the Home page, you'll see a Demo button (if I remember right).  Touch that and I think there is a Nav? button that allows you to set the starting location (haven't done that in awhile).  You can also change the rate of climb/descent.  I know it's there, I just can't remember where.

From the Home Page tap the Demo icon and change Waypoint to the airport of your choice.

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1 hour ago, Bob - S50 said:

When you start, and I think whenever you go to the Home page, you'll see a Demo button (if I remember right).  Touch that and I think there is a Nav? button that allows you to set the starting location (haven't done that in awhile).  You can also change the rate of climb/descent.  I know it's there, I just can't remember where.

Thanks Bob...had the same issue as @rotorman so I’ll try that.

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48 minutes ago, donkaye said:

From the Home Page tap the Demo icon and change Waypoint to the airport of your choice.

 

1 hour ago, Bob - S50 said:

When you start, and I think whenever you go to the Home page, you'll see a Demo button (if I remember right).  Touch that and I think there is a Nav? button that allows you to set the starting location (haven't done that in awhile).  You can also change the rate of climb/descent.  I know it's there, I just can't remember where.

Sheesh! These are the small trip-ups I am plagued with. Things that are perfectly obvious to some I don't see as if I were blind. Thanks for the tip.

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10 hours ago, rotorman said:

 

Sheesh! These are the small trip-ups I am plagued with. Things that are perfectly obvious to some I don't see as if I were blind. Thanks for the tip.

On the theory that a picture is worth a thousand words...

A47A4B79-3F6D-43F7-9429-3F3FB95536A0.jpeg

E1325839-044F-4F7E-B9AC-6B4E86D1B5D5.jpeg

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I am using my windows 10 for the Garmin trainer. Everytime I start it it puts me at KSLE as a starting point. I can't find any way to change it. So I have been flying it to where I want to train at 500 kts wasting a lot of time. Is there away to initialize it to a particular airport?

Another way (since you may not always want to start from the same airport) is to just scroll to where u want to start from and hit the ‘set’ button. I use this a lot when I want to check out an approach. Say I’m flying point a to b which is 300 miles. I’m not gonna sit there while it flies the entire route, or speed up the plane.....I’ll just scroll along the route until I get towards the end and hit set. Boom, the plane jumps to that location.
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16 hours ago, donkaye said:

If a waypoint is being added, just highlight the waypoint after which the new waypoint is being inserted, type in the new waypoint, and you're done.  If an airway is being added, you need to add an entry point, then associated airways are displayed, pick the airway you want and exit point, then load the airway,  It couldn't be easier.

If you're on the map page and need to change the flight plan, rather than go to the Home page and tap the Flight Plan icon, as a short cut, just tap the CDI bar and go directly to the Flight plan Page.

Just with those two pieces of information all flight plan amendments should be easily accomplished.

One situation that I recall off the top of my head called for an amendment where I was given a new heading and told to "join Victor 123, proceed to XYZ, then direct". First of all, I had no idea where the Victor airway was (it turned out to be 50 miles ahead on the new heading) and how to change the existing flight plan in the 750 to "join" the airway.

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2 minutes ago, flyboy0681 said:

One situation that I recall off the top of my head called for an amendment where I was given a new heading and told to "join Victor 123, proceed to XYZ, then direct". First of all, I had no idea where the Victor airway was (it turned out to be 50 miles ahead on the new heading) and how to change the existing flight plan in the 750 to "join" the airway.

Here's what I'd do in that situation.

1.  Turn to the heading.

2.  Switch my geo-referenced tablet chart from Sectional to Low Altitude Chart (if not already there), and see where Victor 123 was.

3.  Take a guess as to approximately where I would intercept the airway, then pick an intersection or navaid along that airway that was definitely going to be behind me when I intercepted the airway.

4.  Enter that fix/navaid in my flightplan, load the airway from there to XYZ, then activate the leg into the first fix after the one I entered.

5.  Since I'm cleared direct after XYZ, remove all fixes in the flightplan between XYZ and my destination.

6.  As I fly along on my heading, as I pass fixes on the airway, the active leg should change to be the leg into the next fix.

7.  Intercept the airway and continue.

Easier to do than it is to describe.  By the way, that's where the simulator works great.  Give yourself all kinds of weird scenarios and see if you can load them up in the simulator.  A great way I find to do that is to try and figure out how to load an obstacle departure procedure that is not a SID.

You'll get it.  Practice, practice, practice.

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One situation that I recall off the top of my head called for an amendment where I was given a new heading and told to "join Victor 123, proceed to XYZ, then direct". First of all, I had no idea where the Victor airway was (it turned out to be 50 miles ahead on the new heading) and how to change the existing flight plan in the 750 to "join" the airway.

Vectors to join an airway are really easy on the GTN. First look at where your present heading is taking you to intercept the airway ahead by looking at your main map page on the 750 - zoom out of need be. Get enough detail visually to see what way point terminates the leg (ahead of where you will intercept). Next at the bottom of the main map page on the GTN 750 is an excerpt of the flight plan - touching this will bring you directly into the Flight plan page. Now find that waypoint that terminates the leg you are being vectored too and touch it. Doing so brings up a menu, you'll select the "Activate Leg" option. Done now hit the Back up button to go back to the main page and continue in heading mode if using your AP, but now that you have activate the leg on the airway you want to intercept, you may also press the NAV button to arm NAV mode to intercept the airway.

This technique should not be new, its the same technique you have been using to activate any leg before the Final Approach fix on any non-precision approach rather than using vector to final, since you need to know when you are passing step down fixes in order to adhere to the altitude restrictions and not try to figure this out by just looking at the map. (VTF works fine on precision approaches since we're using the GS for altitude, but not too well on non-precision approaches unless your just a mile from the FAF).

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I see what the both of you are saying, and this was essentially how I handled the situation, the issue for me was how to get the autopilot to fly the route. The way I ultimately handled it was to fly in heading mode and turn onto the airway by twisting the heading bug and then activate GPSS once on it. Also, the spot where I joined was an arbitrary point in space, there were no waypoints or intersections near it. My understanding of joining the airway was to not deviate from the given heading even if there was one near my interception point. I suppose in hindsight I could have created a temporary waypoint where I believed the intercepting of the airway would take place, activate and had it fly there and do the intercept automatically.

Second part of the exercise, once the new plan is entered, should I have deleted everything from the original flight plan (which bore nothing in common with the amendment) or have kept everything as is and dealt with a very cluttered flight plan page?

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I had a case where the airway was not in the GTN database. I asked ATC to confirm airway number and give me an initial heading. Found it on Garmin Pilot chart, and manually put in the waypoints (only needed 2 since it was straight).
I was in IMC...autopilot with heading mode was a blessing.

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29 minutes ago, flyboy0681 said:

I see what the both of you are saying, and this was essentially how I handled the situation, the issue for me was how to get the autopilot to fly the route. The way I ultimately handled it was to fly in heading mode and turn onto the airway by twisting the heading bug and then activate GPSS once on it. Also, the spot where I joined was an arbitrary point in space, there were no waypoints or intersections near it. My understanding of joining the airway was to not deviate from the given heading even if there was one near my interception point. I suppose in hindsight I could have created a temporary waypoint where I believed the intercepting of the airway would take place, activate and had it fly there and do the intercept automatically.

Second part of the exercise, once the new plan is entered, should I have deleted everything from the original flight plan (which bore nothing in common with the amendment) or have kept everything as is and dealt with a very cluttered flight plan page?

The waypoints on the airway don't have to  be near your interception of the airway.  As long as you've activated the leg on the airway which you will intercept, you're good to go for the intercept.  No problem doing it with the BK autopilots or, of course, the Garmin autopilots.  Once in Heading mode towards the intercept point, arm Nav.  The AP will join the airway at the intercept point.  Once on the airway switch to GPSS.  I would then eliminate any waypoints on the old flight plan ahead of me that would not be used.

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