Seriously considering leaving Mooney behind....

[MIm20c]

@ragedracer1977 have you checked into insurance yet?  I’m WAG’ing a 7-8x increase but not sure. Always planned on a inexpensive hull twin to get my first few hundred hrs and just carry liability. However, the one described above would be too nice to “let it ride”.  

[glafaille]

44 minutes ago, philiplane said:

In a high use commercial environment, of course they will be better. It's the sitting around that kills engines, and Continentals are more prone to this than Lycomings. I'll see your 5000 hours in night freight, and raise you with maintaining 150,000+ flight hours worth of Continental engines over the past two decades, in owner flown, and rental environments. Low utilization kills engines prematurely, and that is the exact type of operation the OP will be doing. It would be foolish not to have large maintenance reserves for the two Continental engines on the 310. Up to, and including, a premature engine replacement with no core value on the old one, if it pukes a rod through the case like this one:

 

[EricJ]

2 hours ago, philiplane said:

Low utilization kills engines prematurely, and that is the exact type of operation the OP will be doing.

Actually, he's probably in the upper-90s percentile for flying for General Aviation.    If he flies it like his Mooney it'll get flown quite a lot.

2 hours ago, philiplane said:

It would be foolish not to have large maintenance reserves for the two Continental engines on the 310. Up to, and including, a premature engine replacement with no core value on the old one, if it pukes a rod through the case like this one:

It's always smart to have maintenance reserves for anything that wiggles, rotates, or uses oil.   For some reason, though, whenever I see the above in an airplane it's always a Continental.

[N201MKTurbo]

23 minutes ago, EricJ said:

Actually, he's probably in the upper-90s percentile for flying for General Aviation.    If he flies it like his Mooney it'll get flown quite a lot.

It's always smart to have maintenance reserves for anything that wiggles, rotates, or uses oil.   For some reason, though, whenever I see the above in an airplane it's always a Continental.

That crank journal doesn't even have any oil residue on it. Where is all the oil? I don't think this is the root cause of the problem!

[alextstone]

3 hours ago, philiplane said:

In a high use commercial environment, of course they will be better. It's the sitting around that kills engines, and Continentals are more prone to this than Lycomings. I'll see your 5000 hours in night freight, and raise you with maintaining 150,000+ flight hours worth of Continental engines over the past two decades, in owner flown, and rental environments. Low utilization kills engines prematurely, and that is the exact type of operation the OP will be doing. It would be foolish not to have large maintenance reserves for the two Continental engines on the 310. Up to, and including, a premature engine replacement with no core value on the old one, if it pukes a rod through the case like this one:

Someone obviously forgot to fill the left hand Twin Magnetic Funk-Reducing Fluid reservoir.  

[EricJ]

7 minutes ago, alextstone said:

Someone obviously forgot to fill the left hand Twin Magnetic Funk-Reducing Fluid reservoir.  

Custom crank-case ventilation done without an STC or 337.   Will clearly have to be grounded.

 

[philiplane]

3 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

That crank journal doesn't even have any oil residue on it. Where is all the oil? I don't think this is the root cause of the problem!

The engine had 8 quarts in it. Normal pressure, normal temperatures, then a BANG with no warning at all. It's one of many Continentals that have thrown rods through the case with no warning. I saw a low time SMOH Turbo Arrow throw the #4 rod through the top of the case. Same basic engine as in the M20K.

FWIW, I've never seen a Lycoming throw a rod through the case like this. I've seen several that had ECI cylinder head separations, and the engines shook a little but kept running and got the planes on the ground just fine.

Edited June 12, 2020 by philiplane

[Frank B.]

On 5/23/2020 at 8:59 PM, KLRDMD said:

I've run a lot of Continental engines over the last 20+ years and they do fine if you treat them right. My Bonanza annuals and maintenance throughout the year haven't been noticeably more if at all than the Mooneys I've owned.

 

Having owned several Mooney’s ... so many that I lost count a long time ago ... I have to say that I probably liked my first Mooney, a 1965 M20C N5601Q as well as any plane that I ever owned or flew ... that was until I got my first Bonanza exactly a year ago this week. A 1978 A36 N700SS .... then last November I got my second Bonanza, a 1980 F33A, N500ZZ. So now I have a fast station wagon and a responsive Corvette. I can’t say that I will never own another Mooney, I may very well, but I can say that I will never NOT own an A36 ... until the day that I head west.

 

[KLRDMD]

Just now, Frank B. said:

Having owned several Mooney’s ... so many that I lost count a long time ago ... I have to say that I probably liked my first Mooney, a 1965 M20C N5601Q as well as any plane that I ever owned or flew ... that was until I got my first Bonanza exactly a year ago this week. A 1978 A36 N700SS .... then last November I got my second Bonanza, a 1980 F33A, N500ZZ. So now I have a fast station wagon and a responsive Corvette. I can’t say that I will never own another Mooney, I may very well, but I can say that I will never NOT own an A36 ... until the day that I head west.

You aren't the only one with that general sentiment. I've owned 16 airplanes, 11 of them single engine airplanes and 4 of them Mooneys. The best single engine airplane I have ever owned is my current S35 Bonanza.

[StevenL757]

On 6/11/2020 at 7:22 PM, ragedracer1977 said:

I moved on from that one.  Too many red flags 

Made an offer on this one, they accepted, and it's on the way to prebuy!  

1978 T310R Ram I (300hp) conversion. FIKI certified.  G500, GTN750, 430W, Avidyne EX500 with radar.  Tail number blocked since it's not "mine" yet. 

Owned by a retired doctor?

TAS Aviation?

One engine timed out?

If it’s the one I’m thinking of, I nearly bought it a few weeks ago but passed...obviously.

Will you be getting your multi rating in it?

[ragedracer1977]

23 minutes ago, StevenL757 said:

Owned by a retired doctor?

TAS Aviation?

One engine timed out?

If it’s the one I’m thinking of, I nearly bought it a few weeks ago but passed...obviously.

Will you be getting your multi rating in it?

Yes and yes.  

You might be surprised what he was willing to take.  Even when I put a new engine on the one side, I'll still have less in it than the cheapest T310R on the market

[ragedracer1977]

8 hours ago, MIm20c said:

@ragedracer1977 have you checked into insurance yet?  I’m WAG’ing a 7-8x increase but not sure. Always planned on a inexpensive hull twin to get my first few hundred hrs and just carry liability. However, the one described above would be too nice to “let it ride”.  

I was actually really surprised. 

About 2.5 times increase.  On 3x hull value. 

[StevenL757]

8 minutes ago, ragedracer1977 said:

Yes and yes.  

You might be surprised what he was willing to take.  Even when I put a new engine on the one side, I'll still have less in it than the cheapest T310R on the market

I won’t say a lot - out of respect for your deal - but believe me, I do know.  ;-)

[MIm20c]

5 minutes ago, ragedracer1977 said:

I was actually really surprised. 

About 2.5 times increase.  On 3x hull value. 

Wow, it would probably cost you about the same to insure a bravo or Ovation of the same value. Which blows my mind unless you already have 500 plus hrs of twin time. If not I’d say we are getting hosed as Mooney owners or there have been a boatload of claims this past year. I’m happy for you, I hope this one works out. 

[ragedracer1977]

0 hours multi. 

17 minutes ago, MIm20c said:

Wow, it would probably cost you about the same to insure a bravo or Ovation of the same value. Which blows my mind unless you already have 500 plus hrs of twin time. If not I’d say we are getting hosed as Mooney owners or there have been a boatload of claims this past year. I’m happy for you, I hope this one works out. 

0 hours multi

[KLRDMD]

Just now, ragedracer1977 said:

0 hours multi. 

Multi engine airplanes, as I have discussed on this board many times from my experience actually owning and operating both singles and twins, are not that much more than singles in overall operating expenses. Bottom line, 40-50% more than a heavy single.

[KLRDMD]

4 minutes ago, philip_g said:

Like I said earlier last quote I got on a 310 was 13k a year and I have a little bit of me time

That sounds really high.  About 18 months ago. I paid $3,824 on my Baron and the premium was that high only because I had a zero multi time pilot on the policy.

Edited June 13, 2020 by KLRDMD

[ragedracer1977]

1 hour ago, philip_g said:

Like I said earlier last quote I got on a 310 was 13k a year and I have a little bit of me time.

 

Avemco wouldn't touch me on a p337 unless I had 100 in type, which cracks me up since its less performance than the Mooney I had at the time.

I got quoted $4500.  Then I reminded them I have 0 multi and want to do initial training in the plane. Went up to $5300.  My mooney is $2300.  

[KLRDMD]

1 hour ago, philip_g said:

Avemco wouldn't touch me on a p337 unless I had 100 in type, which cracks me up since its less performance than the Mooney I had at the time.

When I bought my P337 a few years ago insurance only required a 5 hour checkout.

[Davidv]

On 5/25/2020 at 10:41 PM, daytonabch04 said:

I talked to a guy on BT that is selling his 1987 A36TN with typical cruise around 175 burning 15 kts. Only advantage I see is the 6 seats which comes with a higher UL but it’s a TN not a turbo like the Bravo.  He’s asking 335k..I’ll keep my 200k Bravo as the 135k isn’t worth the 2 seats and moderate UL gain with the same cruise or higher in the Mooney. 
 

I know this is an old thread but my friend has been sending me some of his real life performance after getting his new 550 and TA TN system installed in his bonanza.  I was skeptical when he told me the numbers but the they don’t lie.  It’s pretty impressive considering the UL:

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by Davidv

[Niko182]

7 hours ago, Davidv said:

I know this is an old thread but my friend has been sending me some of his real life performance after getting his new 550 and TA TN system installed in his bonanza.  I was skeptical when he told me the numbers but the they don’t lie.  It’s pretty impressive considering the UL:

 

The bonanza is a good airframe but the real winner here is the TN system. It is a phenominal system. It doesn't have cooling problems with the CHT's and it is flown only LOP. It is flown constantly at 80 to 85 percent power, and if it has the rammer 2 and the whirlwind 3 on it, and provides similar numbers to what my ovation does at at altitude. They won't beat acclaim numbers, but an A36 will do about 200 to 215 knots at 25k, LOP burning 15 to 17 gallons per hour. +190 at 17500. And a +180 knots at 12500. Mind you this isnt even the fast bonanza. An F33 or V35 will be faster by give or take 10 to 15 knots.They really take advantage of being able to use full MP and you simply lean to a good power setting. If Mooney had ever taken advantage of that with the ovation, instead of designing the acclaim, they would have a significantly better turbo system IMO. Everyone that owns a TAT raves about them, and the best thing is, you just add it to your plane. No switching aircrafts. You also keep the efficiency of the the higher compression cylinders. The bravo is a magnificent airplane, but the fact that there are turbo normalized F33A's and V35'S which happen to be faster on less fuel for under 200k, makes the former as good as good as a bargain, as the bravos. You are compairing what is available in 1990 to whats upgrades are availabe 2020, and it isnt a fair fight. To compare modern vs modern, you need an acclaim and that just costs way more. However the biggest mistake im making is looking at it rationally. People will buy what they want to. Some people dont fit in the bonanza, and some dont fit in the mooney. 

[ragedracer1977]

On 6/12/2020 at 11:38 AM, EricJ said:

Actually, he's probably in the upper-90s percentile for flying for General Aviation.    If he flies it like his Mooney it'll get flown quite a lot.

It's always smart to have maintenance reserves for anything that wiggles, rotates, or uses oil.   For some reason, though, whenever I see the above in an airplane it's always a Continental.

Well. I'm flying it like my Mooney.  

 

Owned it 6 months next week.  A little over 100 hours logged so far.  

 

Let me tell you, it's a traveling machine.  Last week, I flew San Antonio to Oceanside, California then back to Phoenix. All in about 6.5 hours.  1 fuel stop.  

 

Then a couple days later, back to San Antonio, picked up the family and flew home to Phoenix.  5 people. 2 dogs  A ton of bags. And enough fuel to do it without stopping on the way home.  We literally had so much stuff I had to make 2 trips to the airport. One with all the baggage and one with people. We couldn't all fit in the car with the baggage.  

 

Got almost 4 hours of IMC on the way to San Antonio.  Never ever would have even tried it in the Mooney.  So far, I'm a happy camper.  (Even though it's taken apart in the hangar right now to replace a starter adapter. )

[carusoam]

Brice, I hope you got some iTunes going with that...

Otherwise it looks like just you and ATC!  

Best regards,

-a-

[ragedracer1977]

[ragedracer1977]

Just now, carusoam said:

Brice, I hope you got some iTunes going with that...

Otherwise it looks like just you and ATC!  

Best regards,

-a-

XM radio through the G500!