Jump to content

Seriously considering leaving Mooney behind....


Recommended Posts

My C has been a great plane, but as my family grows and as we travel more (and probably even more in a personal aircraft as travel requirements become increasingly draconian) we're ready for something bigger.  

I fly an average of 250 hours a year.  Doing rough napkin math, that's 40,000 miles I've flown in the past 12 months.  I USE my plane.  I don't do $100 hamburger runs.  I've been to California, Utah, New Mexico, and Texas twice in the last month.  I've flown to Oregon, Louisiana, Florida, and Wisconsin in the past year.  

Looking at everything available on the market right now, I can't find anything on paper that beats an A36TC Bonanza in my price range.  

I even looked at twins, but the maintenance and operating costs for what amounts to similar range and payload don't make a lot of financial sense.  

I wish Mooney made a six place airplane with the ability to fill the seats and still bring luggage...

So, talk me into or out of a Bonanza.  I feel like I know Mooney's really well as far as maintenance and ADs and what not go, but I don't know much about Bonanzas....

 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

*Members that donate $10 or more do not see advertisements*

  • Replies 205
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

I moved on from that one.  Too many red flags  Made an offer on this one, they accepted, and it's on the way to prebuy!   1978 T310R Ram I (300hp) conversion. FIKI certified.  G500, GTN750,

The most disappointing thing about reaching the end of the Mooney line... It comes too quickly... We have lost MSers Mooney owners for various reasons... (true MSers never leave... even afte

If you do go the Aztec route, and buy this one, I'll contribute the first $100 if you don't repaint it.  We could start a GoFundMe for you!  

Posted Images

3 minutes ago, ragedracer1977 said:

So, talk me into or out of a Bonanza.  I feel like I know Mooney's really well as far as maintenance and ADs and what not go, but I don't know much about Bonanzas....

I certainly can't talk you out of an A36TC. That's phenomenal airplane.

I've had four Mooneys and three Beech products (two Barons and a Bonanza). I just started working with a guy doing his transition training into a Mooney Rocket he just bought. I like Mooneys. But they aren't Bonanzas. 

It isn't an A36 but we can meet up and fly my S35 so you can get a feel for a Bonanza. My airplane goes into annual next Friday though. I also have a friend with an A36 (N/A) at KAVQ that I'm sure I can get you a ride in.

And of course - BeechTalk.

Edited by KLRDMD
Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, KLRDMD said:

 

It isn't an A36 but we can meet up and fly my S35 so you can get a feel for a Bonanza. My airplane goes into annual next Friday though. I also have a friend with an A36 (N/A) at KAVQ that I'm sure I can get you a ride in.

I've flown an S35.  I haven't flown in an A36.  Sat in the front on the ground, but that's about it.  

If I could bring my wife down there to poke around and maybe go for a flight in the A36 that would be awesome!

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, ragedracer1977 said:

I've flown an S35.  I haven't flown in an A36.  Sat in the front on the ground, but that's about it.  If I could bring my wife down there to poke around and maybe go for a flight in the A36 that would be awesome!

PM sent.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The most disappointing thing about reaching the end of the Mooney line...

It comes too quickly...

We have lost MSers Mooney owners for various reasons... (true MSers never leave... even after they no longer have a Mooney.)

  • A fifth seat...
  • A need for more speed... (looking for a turbine solution)
  • A need to haul more stuff... (2X UL)

But before you you go, remember...

  • Long bodies have a fifth seat option...
  • A TN’d Acclaim is a pretty fast, awesome ride...
  • Some LBs have a UL over 1.1k#s... with loaded panels....
  • Young kids don’t carry much stuff....
  • Old kids don’t stay around very long...
  • Plenty of room for the kids and their stuff in a LB.
  • many people use an LB for quite a while before moving up the ladder....
  • The LB serves as a great stepping stone up from the M20C...

Remember to Be nice to the third child... remind them how you had to give up the sports car for them.... :)

PP thoughts only, not a plane sales guy...

Best regards,

-a-

 

  • Like 6
Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, carusoam said:

The most disappointing thing about reaching the end of the Mooney line...

It comes too quickly...

We have lost MSers Mooney owners for various reasons... (true MSers never leave... even after they no longer have a Mooney.)

  • A fifth seat...
  • A need for more speed... (looking for a turbine solution)
  • A need to haul more stuff... (2X UL)

But before you you go, remember...

  • Long bodies have a fifth seat option...
  • A TN’d Acclaim is a pretty fast, awesome ride...
  • Some LBs have a UL over 1.1k#s... with loaded panels....
  • Young kids don’t carry much stuff....
  • Old kids don’t stay around very long...
  • Plenty of room for the kids and their stuff in a LB.
  • many people use an LB for quite a while before moving up the ladder....
  • The LB serves as a great stepping stone up from the M20C...

Remember to Be nice to the third child... remind them how you had to give up the sports car for them.... :)

PP thoughts only, not a plane sales guy...

Best regards,

-a-

 

That's all true, but you can't put 4 in an acclaim, with full tanks.  It seems the A36 with tip tanks let's you carry about the same amount of fuel, and load the cabin. At about half the cost 

 

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

Keep both eyes open while doing the math...

Full tanks.... (how many gallons)

100 gallons... (how many NMs/gal)

Half the cost of what?... (capital investment, operations, parts)?

A quick search of A36s... 3-400 AMU is common...

https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/list/manufacturer/beechcraft/model/a36-bonanza

Expect a trade off buying the cheapest A36, with higher maintenance costs...

Best to visit BT for that...

Operations cost of my favorite MSer turned Beech twin guy... he got a pair of IO550s...

Those costs can get out of hand pretty rapidly... even while sharing them...

Go El Presidente! (Search on this term, it is around here somewhere)

If able, consider the single turbine... PA46T... 

Be prepared to step up wisely... expect some TT in whichever plane you step up into...

Best regards,

-a-

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, carusoam said:

Keep both eyes open while doing the math...

Full tanks.... (how many gallons)

100 gallons... (how many NMs/gal)

Half the cost of what?... (capital investment, operations, parts)?

A quick search of A36s... 3-400 AMU is common...

https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/list/manufacturer/beechcraft/model/a36-bonanza

Expect a trade off buying the cheapest A36, with higher maintenance costs...

Best to visit BT for that...

Operations cost of my favorite MSer turned Beech twin guy... he got a pair of IO550s...

Those costs can get out of hand pretty rapidly... even while sharing them...

Go El Presidente! (Search on this term, it is around here somewhere)

Be prepared to step up wisely... expect some TT in whichever plane you step up into...

Best regards,

-a-

I'm over on BT asking the same questions.  

I'm looking specifically at A36TC with tip tanks.  They seem to be in the under $200 range.  This one for instance.

 

https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/32589069/1980-beechcraft-a36tc-bonanza

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, ragedracer1977 said:

I'm over on BT asking the same questions.  I'm looking specifically at A36TC with tip tanks.  They seem to be in the under $200 range.  This one for instance.

https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/32589069/1980-beechcraft-a36tc-bonanza

The published useful load looks suspect. But it doesn't quite look right for payload either. Worth investigating.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, KLRDMD said:

The published useful load looks suspect. But it doesn't quite look right for payload either. Worth investigating.

Agreed.  It seems really low.  

I kinda think that's been sold already anyway.  It says based in Illinois but it's been flying out of Sedona quite a bit recently

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, ragedracer1977 said:

Agreed.  It seems really low.  

I kinda think that's been sold already anyway.  It says based in Illinois but it's been flying out of Sedona quite a bit recently

As the people on BT are suggesting, a normally aspirated A36 will probably do just fine. I don't miss the turbo in my S35 where in my Mooneys, it really did make a difference. A 285 HP 520 versus a 180 HP 360 is a really big deal..

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I gave up on O2 with young children....

TCs and costs and safety...

Speed comes from being in the FLs.... the upside of having a TC...

Managing everyone’s O2 levels and flying the plane is going to add to the challenge...
 

Exhaust system Safety... TCs get expensive updates on the transition plumbing between the engine and the TC... they are wear items that are critical if they fail...

Read up on tube wall thinning, V-bands, And continental replacement parts cost for that...
more the type of engine than anything manufacturer related...

With Brand B... make sure you look at W & B... it is possible that you can fly out of the back of the envelope with some...
 

Sorry to load your homework assignments up...  Hopefully, it helps to bring additional questions to consider...
 

Best regards,

-a-

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, airtim said:

What is your price range? 

Up to about $200. Maybe a little more.  I haven't looked at financing yet, but I could probably get quite a bit more.  I'm probably looking at putting $100k down and financing the rest. This is still in thought exercise territory.  I'm probably 3-6 months from actually pulling the trigger

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, ragedracer1977 said:

Up to about $200. Maybe a little more.  I haven't looked at financing yet, but I could probably get quite a bit more.  I'm probably looking at putting $100k down and financing the rest. This is still in thought exercise territory.  I'm probably 3-6 months from actually pulling the trigger

How many people are you going to regularly carry? How far?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Interest rates are about as low as humanly possible right now...

Essentially zero interest...  (do you remember the 17% days of the 70s, and candy bars going from 10 to 25 cents...)

So if financing the plane has been decided upon... get the whole plane...
 

It is expected that the return of inflation may be closer on the horizon than before... lots of money being pumped into the economy.... The tool to fight inflation is increased interest rates....

Best regards,

-a-

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Good luck with the A36, they have top WnB, check if the turbo bit does work well with 4pob on 800nm leg?

Come back to Mooney when you downsize to 3sob (or after losing weight or bags :unsure:) when looking for best mpg & speed per dollar ;)

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Ibra said:

Good luck with the A36, they have top WnB, check if the turbo bit does work well with 4pob on 800nm leg?

Come back to Mooney when you downsize to 3sob (or after losing weight or bags :unsure:) when looking for best mpg & speed per dollar ;)

I love my Mooney, but the speed per dollar doesn't out weigh comfort.  No matter what Mooney I buy, it will be the same for me.  Having a plane with a door for passengers instead of contorting over seats will go a long way with flying my wife and family around.  

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, airtim said:

Ever think of a Comanche 260C? 

Yes. I fly my friends 250 from time to time.  Doesn't offer much that the Mooney doesn't have.  It's a little bigger. Marginally faster.  But it's still a one door airplane. My family really wants something that doesn't require climbing over seats.  

Comfort has value.  B)

Link to post
Share on other sites

The A36 is a great plane and would be my first choice as well if I needed more cabin space and seats/pax. I really like them and have done IR and Com ratings in them so have a fair amount of time in them.  I would definitely go for the cargo doors since they offer so much more utility with them than without. I am not a fan of the TSIO-520 engine though and all other things equal I would MUCH prefer the a TAT turbo normalizer conversion on the IO-550 - you can't beat it for efficiency and performance. I don't think the earlier TSIO-520's even had pressurized mags or even an intercooler, but I believe the later ones do but I'd want to check those details if I was in the market for one. Out west a Turbo is always a beneficial, I know I am never going back to NA.  

Edited by kortopates
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm confused isn't the pilot the only one that has to climb over the seats.  If its doors and easy in and out for pax and the need for an SUV that fly's I would be looking at a big Cessna like a 206 or a 210 or maybe even a 177 that thing has doors like a mini van.  I feel so lucky that my D/C happens to be the perfect fit for our mission.  Good luck with what ever you decide I just hope it's not one of those dam SR's

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Ive had this mental exercise and my end result was a 1976-1978 straight-tail, Hershey-bar wing Piper PA-32-300 Lance. Big cabin. Some parts commonality with the venerable Cherokee (cheaper than Beech) and the best part and big swinger in my book- Lycoming 540. Basically a -360 with two more jugs. The thought of Continentals tickle my wallet in ways I cant fathom. From what I read is they do 145-155KTAS at 11-13gph, 6 seats, 2x baggage compartments. Certainly not as fast as a Bo, but if it fits, it ships

 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ragedracer1977 said:

4. At least 800nm

That’s a really long trip if you’re going to try it in one leg. Especially with kids.  And no potty.

we did fine with two kids in the 231, and your budget allows for an ovation or Bravo. If you haven’t, you owe it to yourself to look at, ponder the baggage space, and look at the real leg times for your 80% mission.  I believe Mooneys are undervalued relative to what they deliver because people are unfamiliar with or steeped in the untutored prejudice of how hard they are to land.
 

so to us, it’s the devil we know, and if you can make the numbers work, you’ll get a much newer, lower time, and likely better equipped bird with a Mooney.

-de

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


*Members that donate $10 or more do not see advertisements*



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.