GFC 500 and G3X Touch Ovation

[hypertech]

How do you like the gfc500?  Mine is in the shop now for the same although I am leaning towards putting the controller at the top of the stack.  Looks like you had to have the indicator trimmed down.  We are thinking the same might have to happen to mine to get it to fit but good to see it can be done.

[PMcClure]

6 hours ago, hypertech said:

How do you like the gfc500?  Mine is in the shop now for the same although I am leaning towards putting the controller at the top of the stack.  Looks like you had to have the indicator trimmed down.  We are thinking the same might have to happen to mine to get it to fit but good to see it can be done.

I have not flown it enough to say yet. Give me a week and I'll give you an update but from what I saw in my 30 minute flight yesterday I like it. It will take some getting used to looking at the panel for the setting vs at the A/P box. Otherwise the whole system is very intuitive. 

We went back and forth with the location of the GFC500 and decided to put it at the bottom for 2 reasons: 1) its where Mooney put the A/P and would be more intuitive for any Mooney Pilot 2) thought it would be more accessible there and easier to steady my hand in turbulence. 

We did have to trim down the annunciator panel and you will notice the audio box was removed. 

[PMcClure]

6 minutes ago, ilovecornfields said:

Such a clean look! Where did all the rocker switches go?

Thanks - They are in the stock location, but removed stand-by vacuum and the blanks. Gained 30lbs in Useful Load!

[hypertech]

I've already got the 750 with remote audio so mine is pretty similar in height to yours.  I'm getting dual G5s though. 

[PMcClure]

I flew about 4 hours this Saturday and it felt good to be back in the air. It is hard to separate the impact of each of the upgrades, but flying the G3X, 750Xi and the GFC 500 A/P together is impressive. The availability of information and intuitive flow is excellent. One thing I noticed is that I never even glanced at my iPad. All the information was in front of me in the panel.

The A/P flight envelope protection features are a great improvement. The KFC 225 was a great A/P but the stability of the GFC500 is better and the integration with the other avionics is much improved.  There were a few times I said  "what the heck is the A/P doing now" but by the 4th approach, I had it down. Flying victor airways is great as is selecting and flying holds at any fix. I also appreciate how it picks up the glide path and flies the missed approach so seamlessly. One other nice benefit is the gain in useful load of 30 lbs. 

Only a few bugs left from the install. Main one being my right fuel indicator Is not working properly. Also need to add lean assist option to engine monitoring. 

I feel lucky that I was able to do this at my home field (KPLR) and can wholeheartedly recommend Holder Aviation. He may not be the cheapest or the fastest but he did very good work and was easy to work with, even through the pandemic. The installation was very clean and professional. Notice the updated circuit breaker panel in the pics above. Small detail I know, but reverse engraving a new panel makes for a new looking panel. I am amazed at the amount of detailed work that was required to get this upgrade done and how few bugs there are to report.

I am wondering how this upgrade impacts value. None of this equipment is listed on Vref yet. Personally, I think it was a great value in terms of what it cost for what I got, and hopefully translating into value of the plane (although I don't plan on selling anytime soon). Hopefully these upgrades will keep 51K in the air for the next 20 years. Next will be an engine replace/rebuild but hope to put that off a few more years.

Any questions, let me know. Appreciate the support of this community. 

[MIm20c]

Nice looking panel. Personally I’d flip the engine monitor to the other side of the display. 

[Niko182]

5 minutes ago, MIm20c said:

Nice looking panel. Personally I’d flip the engine monitor to the other side of the display. 

On the g3x the owner can switch it over by themselves. I like it on that side after trying both sides. You dont need to go to a shop anymore

[carusoam]

Looks like this may be the start of the...

“Ovation as a forever-plane thread...”

-a-

[PMcClure]

33 minutes ago, Niko182 said:

On the g3x the owner can switch it over by themselves. I like it on that side after trying both sides. You dont need to go to a shop anymore

Thanks! I will try that next time.

[khedrei]

On 2/26/2020 at 12:59 PM, Kris_Adams said:

I didn't have the height to put the autopilot on the center stack (where I originally intended)-so we ended putting it between the g3x and the center stack.  I'll include a pic of one of my test flights.  After many flights, I'm loving the location.  Compared to my old Century IIB autopilot, I do a lot more knob pushing and really like that the autopilot is right at hand.  I'm extremely pleased with the results and the overall capabilities of the g3x/gfc500.  I think the pair could practically put the plane on runway if needed. (as far as being slightly left center, I thought it would be a big deal but I don't even notice it at all).  Sorry not the best of pics but that's all I have right now.

Is that a guardian avionics ipad mount for a mini? My avionics guy said mine couldnt fit even though it seems like it can. Was any special modifying required? Is it right side up? Seems that if I put it right side up the yoke is in the way of the charger cable assembly but may be able to put it upside down.  Amy info is appreciated. Mine looks like this....

 

I opted for the new mid continent clock. The TXI has one but there is something about having a nice big clock right there. Has USB power as well. 

Also, 2 thumbs up for the 750 and FS 510. Very intuitive and doesnt take long to get used to. Knob turning is a thing of the past other than for volume. 

[Cruiser]

Did you notice any porpoising from the autopilot like Don Kaye experienced ? 

He had a terrible time with it and had to go to the Garmin factory for a fix. 

[Niko182]

Just now, Cruiser said:

Did you notice any porpoising from the autopilot like Don Kaye experienced ? 

He had a terrible time with it and had to go to the Garmin factory for a fix. 

The entire issue was that the shaft for the yoke was dirty. Once cleaned it stopped it. Mine at the beginning did the same. Once i cleaned the yoke shaft, problem went away.

[PMcClure]

17 hours ago, Cruiser said:

Did you notice any porpoising from the autopilot like Don Kaye experienced ? 

He had a terrible time with it and had to go to the Garmin factory for a fix. 

None for me so far. Although, I did have a similar issue with the yoke lube with the prior A/P. 

[ilovecornfields]

I’m afraid to ask, but what’s the best way to lube my AIRPLANE’S yoke?

[PMcClure]

Just now, ilovecornfields said:

I’m afraid to ask, but what’s the best way to lube my AIRPLANE’S yoke?

I can think of a few interesting ways! 

But I don't remember what exactly was done  did other than cleaning and applying some lube. My last flight, I felt some minor binding during preflight and added this to the squawk list for my upcoming annual.

[Oldguy]

On 5/13/2020 at 10:05 AM, ilovecornfields said:

I’m afraid to ask, but what’s the best way to lube my AIRPLANE’S yoke?

A couple of shots of tri-flow is what I have seen mentioned by some of the A&Ps on the site.

(We won't mention that a good polishing of the yoke shaft also helps...)

[hypertech]

There's a chart in the service manual.  Control Yoke (Lower Section) calls for MIL-L-7870, which I think is LPS 2.

[StevenL757]

On 5/13/2020 at 11:11 AM, PMcClure said:

I can think of a few interesting ways! 

But I don't remember what exactly was done  did other than cleaning and applying some lube. My last flight, I felt some minor binding during preflight and added this to the squawk list for my upcoming annual.

 

On 5/13/2020 at 11:05 AM, ilovecornfields said:

I’m afraid to ask, but what’s the best way to lube my AIRPLANE’S yoke?

Silicone spray is actually better to use than LPS2, as it doesn’t gather dust and gunk over the long term.  My IA uses it every annual and provides as good, if not better, freedom of control column movement without residue and buildup on the column shaft or the guide block.

Edited May 19, 2020 by StevenL757
Addl. content

[PMcClure]

Just now, StevenL757 said:

 

Silicone spray is actually better to use than LPS2, as it doesn’t gather dust and gunk over the long term.  My IA uses it every annual and provides as good, if not better, freedom of control column movement.

I think silicone is what we used.

[kris_adams]

On 5/12/2020 at 11:27 AM, khedrei said:

Is that a guardian avionics ipad mount for a mini? My avionics guy said mine couldnt fit even though it seems like it can. Was any special modifying required? Is it right side up? Seems that if I put it right side up the yoke is in the way of the charger cable assembly but may be able to put it upside down.  Amy info is appreciated. Mine looks like this....

 

I opted for the new mid continent clock. The TXI has one but there is something about having a nice big clock right there. Has USB power as well. 

Also, 2 thumbs up for the 750 and FS 510. Very intuitive and doesnt take long to get used to. Knob turning is a thing of the past other than for volume. 

 

Yes it's a Guardian mount.  There wasn't a lot of extra space but the avionics guy got it in no problem.  I don't think he had to modify it but I'll ask next time I'm there.  My charger cable is out the bottom.  The 750/FS510 is awesome.

[PMcClure]

70 hours now with the new set-up. A few thoughts:

1) I am very happy with the location of the GFC500 at the bottom of the center stack. 

2) the GFC500 is a very stable and reliable and intuitive A/P. Integration with the GN750 and G3X makes flying IMC single pilot effortless. I feel very confident with it. 

3) Still debugging the fuel gauges. Found out the stock gauges do not work with the Garmin G3X. Had to replace them and am still debugging that. 

4) Happy with my choice of shops. Partly because it was local but Holder Aviation has been very thorough and responsive to all of my requests and needs. 

5) I don't miss the yaw damper. Maybe I don't know what I am missing. 

6) Flying more and longer flights. The mental work load is about 50% or could even be 33% compared to the old set-up. The only thing I am not completely happy with is the layout of the engine monitor gauges. I keep searching for information, but maybe I will get more used to it as time goes on. 

7) Perhaps the best upgrade was the sheepskin seat covers! Best value so far. 

Some things I would have done different:

1). I would not have refurbed the G430 unit. Instead, I would sell it and replace with a simple back-up com. It takes up panel space and essentially is a fancy radio now. I don't even program destination in the nav. 

2) I would have looked harder at the G500TXi vs the G3X. By the time I added the engine monitor and all the integration with the 750, I think the final cost would have been about the same. Although I am not sure and not sure what capability I would have gained.

3) I would not have kept the old air speed indicator and altimeter. Original plan was to keep the turn coordinator too. But it was kaput. 

4) Not start a complete teardown and build up just before a pandemic

 

PS MORITZ boxes and probes still available. Get them while you can. 

 

 

[PMcClure]

My Avionics shop forwarded me this service bulletin a few days ago and I wanted to pass along my experience. After the installation of the G3 touch - we spent months trouble shooting the stock fuel sensor. It was total trash and I could not rely on fuel amount except when full. After a lot of back and forth with Garmin and wasted fuel and labor, we were informed that the stock sensors were not compatible with the G3 Touch. We installed CiES senders which cost me a few unexpected AMU's. Everything is perfect now and I am satisfied with the outcome, except the burn of spending money we had not expected. I'll cross post this on my other post about our installation. 

 

Service Alert 20137

G3X Touch for Certificated Aircraft Fuel Quantity Indication Error

When operating at low fuel, the fuel quantity gauges of G3X Touch and GI 275 systems installed in certified aircraft may erroneously indicate up to four (4) gallons, more or less, than the actual quantity in each tank. The fuel quantity error increases when the fuel senders have small resistance ranges and when the GEA 24 is subject to significant temperature changes. The error only occurs if a GEA 24 is installed and connected to resistive fuel senders with a range of less than or equal to 100 ohms.   Please review the Service Alert below for more information and corrective action.

[PMcClure]

One more update for you. I have about 100 hours with this set-up now and still really like it. Very happy with the upgrade. 

I found that the GFC500 A/P has a lower Vne than the handbook. The handbook gives you 195 KIAS but the GFC500 starts to react when speed reaches 182 KIAS and pitches up at 185 KIAS. This is part of the envelope protection. Since 185 is the start of the yellow arc and is only allowed in smooth air, this makes some sense to me. But, hate losing 10 knots  You can see in attached video

[Davidv]

18 minutes ago, PMcClure said:

One more update for you. I have about 100 hours with this set-up now and still really like it. Very happy with the upgrade. 

I found that the GFC500 A/P has a lower Vne than the handbook. The handbook gives you 195 KIAS but the GFC500 starts to react when speed reaches 182 KIAS and pitches up at 185 KIAS. This is part of the envelope protection. Since 185 is the start of the yellow arc and is only allowed in smooth air, this makes some sense to me. But, hate losing 10 knots  You can see in attached video

FYI if you don’t know already, you can update any of these values in the setup module of the G3X.  Just hold down the menu button on startup and go to the appropriate spot. For instance, I updated my CHT redline to 425 and put in a yellow line at 400.  The standard green to red at 500 didn’t make much sense to me. 

The GFC500 setup menus are in there too so you can update the bank angles, attack angles, speeds ect before ESP kicks in.  
 

[PMcClure]

2 hours ago, Davidv said:

FYI if you don’t know already, you can update any of these values in the setup module of the G3X.  Just hold down the menu button on startup and go to the appropriate spot. For instance, I updated my CHT redline to 425 and put in a yellow line at 400.  The standard green to red at 500 didn’t make much sense to me. 

The GFC500 setup menus are in there too so you can update the bank angles, attack angles, speeds ect before ESP kicks in.  
 

I am partially aware of this. But was told by avionic short that airspeed is a limitation built into the GFC500 and part of the STC.