For those of us with Aspens and King A/P, the replacement A/P is...???

[Oldguy]

So I have been following the threads about the STEC 3100, the GFC 500, Tru-Trak, etc. and all of their connections, requirements, functions, and capabilities. But for those of us with the Aspen/King A/P setup, what will retain our current capabilities other than the (soon-to-be-released-manana) AeroCruze 230 without a rip and replace? Even the AeroCruze sounds like it will will require the "coming soon to an avionics shop near you" KI-300.

Don't get me wrong, the KAP-150 I have is still working well, but I know it is only one problem away from a 5-digit repair. If I am going to end up spending a large sum of $$$ to repair a 30+ year old autopilot, it seems to me to make sense to invest it into something less long in the tooth, but I cannot figure out what that might be unless I either swap out the Aspen for dual G5's and put in the GFC 500 or put in the STEC 3100 from scratch.

Anyone with the same setup have a good plan on what they are going to do in a situation like this? Would love to hear some ideas and thoughts on options not requiring a rip and replace of the major parts of my panel. TIA

[aviatoreb]

9 minutes ago, Oldguy said:

So I have been following the threads about the STEC 3100, the GFC 500, Tru-Trak, etc. and all of their connections, requirements, functions, and capabilities. But for those of us with the Aspen/King A/P setup, what will retain our current capabilities other than the (soon-to-be-released-manana) AeroCruze 230 without a rip and replace? Even the AeroCruze sounds like it will will require the "coming soon to an avionics shop near you" KI-300.

Don't get me wrong, the KAP-150 I have is still working well, but I know it is only one problem away from a 5-digit repair. If I am going to end up spending a large sum of $$$ to repair a 30+ year old autopilot, it seems to me to make sense to invest it into something less long in the tooth, but I cannot figure out what that might be unless I either swap out the Aspen for dual G5's and put in the GFC 500 or put in the STEC 3100 from scratch.

Anyone with the same setup have a good plan on what they are going to do in a situation like this? Would love to hear some ideas and thoughts on options not requiring a rip and replace of the major parts of my panel. TIA

I agree with you to replace my KFC200 on a still working-for-how long basis regarding the cost of keeping it working against the cost of the soon to be available digital autopilots.

In your situation,. if you got a GFC500 and one G5 then that would control your autopilot and your Aspen would then serve just as pfd/mfd for you the pilot which is still very useful but not actually interact with the autopilot.  Just a thought but that would be less invasive than taking out the aspen as well and still very nice and useful.

[Bob - S50]

If you want an autopilot that can legally fly an instrument approach then you are looking at King, STEC, or Garmin.  If you want an autopilot that is capable of flying an instrument approach but can't do it legally (yet), then you can include the TruTrak, Trio, or Dynon (although Dynon doesn't seem practical if you want to keep your Aspen).

If you want electric trim then again, you have to pick King, STEC, or Garmin unless you can find a stand alone electric trim system.

Like Aviatoreb said, you could put in one G5 to run the Garmin.  You can't put it in as a backup for the Aspen because Garmin says it can only be a backup AI for their G500 or G500 TXi.  However, you could use the G5 to legally replace a turn coordinator if you still have one.  That would give you your Aspen AI, the backup AI, and a G5 AI.  You would need to buy the GAD29B and GMU11 so you are looking at just under $3000 plus the autopilot.  That's $7000 plus installation kit, plus installation, plus extra servos if you want electric trim or yaw damper.

Best of luck.

[gsxrpilot]

I'm going through this thought process as well. My KFC150 is working fine but of course that can end on any day.

My requirements are to not lose any of the current capability I have now. This includes the autopilot flying a fully coupled approach to minimums, legally. I'm also not interested in having my autopilot fly of one set of instruments while I fly off another set of instruments. This seems to be the case with the G500TXi/G5/GFC500.

I'm also not interested in waiting for years on vapourware.

So at the moment I think the best option is to keep my Aspen and go with the STEC3100 autopilot. I'll either make the switch when the STC is approved and my KFC150 still has some value (I've been offered $3K for it now) or wait until the KFC150 dies and then make the swap.

This way the only thing I'm removing/changing out, is the autopilot. It won't be cheap, but it will be top of the line and should put that matter to rest for the remainder of my ability to hold a medical.

[Oldguy]

45 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

I'm going through this thought process as well. My KFC150 is working fine but of course that can end on any day.

My requirements are to not lose any of the current capability I have now. This includes the autopilot flying a fully coupled approach to minimums, legally. I'm also not interested in having my autopilot fly of one set of instruments while I fly off another set of instruments. This seems to be the case with the G500TXi/G5/GFC500.

I'm also not interested in waiting for years on vapourware.

So at the moment I think the best option is to keep my Aspen and go with the STEC3100 autopilot. I'll either make the switch when the STC is approved and my KFC150 still has some value (I've been offered $3K for it now) or wait until the KFC150 dies and then make the swap.

This way the only thing I'm removing/changing out, is the autopilot. It won't be cheap, but it will be top of the line and should put that matter to rest for the remainder of my ability to hold a medical.

This is along the line I am thinking as well. If I had gone G5's instead of Aspen, it would be a no-brainer, but oh well. Either way looks to be expensive, but less painful than a non-functional (or only partially functional) autopilot.

Hey, @Simpson Bennett, what is the likelihood of some incentive for those of us who will bite the bullet and go from Brand K autopilot to the STEC 3100? Inquiring wallets want to know.

[LANCECASPER]

Here's the link to register:

https://register.gotowebinar.com/register/2710465881955675394

[Marauder]

This is along the line I am thinking as well. If I had gone G5's instead of Aspen, it would be a no-brainer, but oh well. Either way looks to be expensive, but less painful than a non-functional (or only partially functional) autopilot.
Hey, [mention=13762]Simpson Bennett[/mention], what is the likelihood of some incentive for those of us who will bite the bullet and go from Brand K autopilot to the STEC 3100? Inquiring wallets want to know.

If the GFC 500 had a control panel like the STEC 3100, you could certainly keep your current setup and just use the GFC 500’s control panel. Crafty people at Garmin didn’t put a full function display on the GFC 500 forcing you to buy their G5 to control it for some features.

I have the STEC 60-2 and dual Aspens so the step up for me is pretty straightforward. Especially since the control features will be added to the Aspen. It current is there for the 55X autopilot.


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[aviatoreb]

1 hour ago, gsxrpilot said:

I'm going through this thought process as well. My KFC150 is working fine but of course that can end on any day.

My requirements are to not lose any of the current capability I have now. This includes the autopilot flying a fully coupled approach to minimums, legally. I'm also not interested in having my autopilot fly of one set of instruments while I fly off another set of instruments. This seems to be the case with the G500TXi/G5/GFC500.

I'm also not interested in waiting for years on vapourware.

So at the moment I think the best option is to keep my Aspen and go with the STEC3100 autopilot. I'll either make the switch when the STC is approved and my KFC150 still has some value (I've been offered $3K for it now) or wait until the KFC150 dies and then make the swap.

This way the only thing I'm removing/changing out, is the autopilot. It won't be cheap, but it will be top of the line and should put that matter to rest for the remainder of my ability to hold a medical.

I haven't been paying much attention to the STEC3100 since as far as I can tell it is most price efficient to go that route if you already have an STEC something else and the associated interfaces, servos, etc.  Not reinstalling servos is a big money saver.  Although at least it is very nice to be able to go with modern brushless motors.

But seems like you have looked into it, and you do not already have some kind of STEC in your plane to benefit the big savings I just mentioned.  So I am curious - have you looked into the price of such a de-neuvo install of a STEC3100?

I would be curious to install possibly a aerocruze KFC230 on the same basis - except no way - that company has become goofy.

[LANCECASPER]

15 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

I would be curious to install possibly a aerocruze KFC230 on the same basis - except no way - that company has become goofy.

I am cautiously optimistic on the AeroCruze 230 : https://www.beechtalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=159538

[gsxrpilot]

If the AeroCruze 230 is actually available to upgrade my KFC150 in Q1 of 2019... I'll give it a very close look. 

The AeroCruze 230 upgrade from the KFC150 is $10K plus install. Install will be less as same servos are used.

The STEC3100 full new purchase is $20K plus install. Install will be more as new servos are required.

I figure using rough numbers the difference between the STEC3100 and upgrading to the AeroCruze could be $15K. That certainly makes the AeroCruze worth a look. But at less than 10% the value of the airplane, it's not enough to get me to completely write off the STEC.

[MIm20c]

45 minutes ago, Marauder said:

I have the STEC 60-2 and dual Aspens so the step up for me is pretty straightforward. Especially since the control features will be added to the Aspen. It current is there for the 55X autopilot.


When looking at the new generations of AP’s I like to look at what failure modes could put me in an emergency situation. 

If I owned a two screen aspen system I would want the ea100 feeding off the mfd screen.  This way a pfd failure (disruption) would not take my AP out of commission. Likewise the G5 requirement is a bonus IMO as the course/approach/etc would continue as normal even if the txi main pfd went dark. 

The stec 3100 has an internal AHRS system but uses the aspen info if connected. If I was doing the install I would again connect it to the mfd unit. I’d rather be down the AP or my main pfd not both at the same time. 

IMO stec needs to sharpen its pencil for pricing on the full system. They include a multi thousand dollar air data computer for free if pfd info is not available. Take that out of the package and have it an add on. Get the retail price down in the 14k range. No reason 35 year old servos should reduce the cost so much. 

[gsxrpilot]

I'd love for all of this to be cheaper. 

But the full retail new purchase price for the GFC600, AeroCruze, and STEC3100 are all $20K.  Of these three... only the STEC and the AeroCruze are scheduled to be available for the Mooneys. And of those two... I've got more confidence in Genesys than King, in delivering a full featured product on time.

The GFC500 is cheaper but is also more limited than any of the three above.

[Marauder]

When looking at the new generations of AP’s I like to look at what failure modes could put me in an emergency situation. 

If I owned a two screen aspen system I would want the ea100 feeding off the mfd screen.  This way a pfd failure (disruption) would not take my AP out of commission. Likewise the G5 requirement is a bonus IMO as the course/approach/etc would continue as normal even if the txi main pfd went dark. 

The stec 3100 has an internal AHRS system but uses the aspen info if connected. If I was doing the install I would again connect it to the mfd unit. I’d rather be down the AP or my main pfd not both at the same time. 

IMO stec needs to sharpen its pencil for pricing on the full system. They include a multi thousand dollar air data computer for free if pfd info is not available. Take that out of the package and have it an add on. Get the retail price down in the 14k range. No reason 35 year old servos should reduce the cost so much. 

I did one better. I installed an AP reversion switch. My STEC will run off of either the PFD or the MFD in reversion mode. Look above the MFD in this picture.

 

[LANCECASPER]

24 minutes ago, Marauder said:

I did one better. I installed an AP reversion switch. My STEC will run off of either the PFD or the MFD in reversion mode. Look above the MFD in this picture.

I did also.

[MIm20c]

2 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

I did also.

Any pictures of the finished panel?

[LANCECASPER]

10 minutes ago, MIm20c said:

Any pictures of the finished panel?

sorta . .  this is phase one with the Aspens. The next phase will be a new left hand panel when I add a flush mount JPI900, CIES fuel senders and flush mount the Aspens.  (I keep reminding myself that it won't fly one knot faster with the flush mounts. .  it won't fly one knot faster with the flush mounts . . .)

That will eliminate the Shadin Fuel Flow and I'll clean up whatever else I can. I may pull the stormscope wx-1000+ and add a remote WX-500 that displays on the Avidyne and Aspens. If the Aero Cruze 230 A/P upgrade comes through I may also go with that and eliminate the Altitude Pre-Select and the KEA130A Altimeter. In the meantime it flies great , , ,

 

 

[Marauder]

sorta . .  this is phase one with the Aspens. The next phase will be a new left hand panel when I add a flush mount JPI900, CIES fuel senders and flush mount the Aspens.  (I keep reminding myself that it won't fly one knot faster with the flush mounts. .  it won't fly one knot faster with the flush mounts . . .)
That will eliminate the Shadin Fuel Flow and I'll clean up whatever else I can. I may pull the stormscope wx-1000+ and add a remote WX-500 that displays on the Avidyne and Aspens. If the Aero Cruze 230 A/P upgrade comes through I may also go with that and eliminate the Altitude Pre-Select and the KEA130A Altimeter. In the meantime it flies great , , ,

 
 

When I had my flush mounts installed, it was actually 2 knots faster (one knot for each Aspen).


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[gsxrpilot]

Yeah, over the objections of the radio shop, I wasn't taking the plane home with the Aspen stuck to the front of the panel. And the same with the EDM-900. We even flush mounted the G5 using an EDM-900 flush mount kit because Garmin hadn't made any yet.

[Marauder]

I flew for several years without them flush mounted. Much better this way.




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[LANCECASPER]

I keep reminding myself that it won't fly one knot faster with the flush mounts. .  it won't fly one knot faster with the flush mounts . . . I will not succumb to the peer pressure of Mooneyspace until I am ready . . . I will not succumb to the peer pressure of Mooneyspace until I am ready . . . Our Father who art in heaven . . .

Edited November 28, 2018 by LANCECASPER

[aviatoreb]

2 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

sorta . .  this is phase one with the Aspens. The next phase will be a new left hand panel when I add a flush mount JPI900, CIES fuel senders and flush mount the Aspens.  (I keep reminding myself that it won't fly one knot faster with the flush mounts. .  it won't fly one knot faster with the flush mounts . . .)

That will eliminate the Shadin Fuel Flow and I'll clean up whatever else I can. I may pull the stormscope wx-1000+ and add a remote WX-500 that displays on the Avidyne and Aspens. If the Aero Cruze 230 A/P upgrade comes through I may also go with that and eliminate the Altitude Pre-Select and the KEA130A Altimeter. In the meantime it flies great , , ,

 

 

Nice pen holder.

[LANCECASPER]

1 minute ago, aviatoreb said:

Nice pen holder.

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pspages/mgf-acc-1170.php

[aviatoreb]

Just now, LANCECASPER said:

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pspages/mgf-acc-1170.php

Sometimes its the little things.

[gsxrpilot]

https://www.amazon.com/Stainless-Holder-Strong-Adhesive-Adjustable/dp/B072SSGY57/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1543364824&sr=8-14&keywords=pen+clip

 

[aviatoreb]

4 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

https://www.amazon.com/Stainless-Holder-Strong-Adhesive-Adjustable/dp/B072SSGY57/ref=sr_1_14?ie=UTF8&qid=1543364824&sr=8-14&keywords=pen+clip

 

5 for $11?

that can’t be aviation quality