Turbulence + V = chicken

[gsxrpilot]

One of the things I like about flying in Texas is the ability to see these frontal lines from many miles away. Knowing that I never HAVE to fly, I'll often go up to "take a look". Sometimes I can make an end round around the line, sometimes I see gaps opening up and sometimes there are gaps up high that allow for a run over the top. The speed, range, and service ceiling of the Mooney gives lots of options. Of course, turning around and going home is always an option as well.

But more often than not, I find I can get through one way or another. And I'm all in favor of giving the cells a wide berth. But the Mooney allows me to go get a first hand look.

[Mooney in Oz]

On 5/11/2018 at 9:54 PM, teejayevans said:

For me expected turbulence = no go. One thing to get it passing through some clouds, but widespread, no thanks.

 

On 5/15/2018 at 12:47 PM, Piloto said:

Turbulence not only affect the airframe but also items attached to it. Under high turbulence the wings may not fell off but maybe your rusty engine mount, floor attachment, avionics, batteries and other components.

José 

I am well and truly with TJ and Piloto on this one.  

We all have our own limits, mine is 5,000' wind at around 50 kts together with forecast severe turbulence that also most times comes with strong winds on the ground.  I will simply arrange to go another day.  Despite the known strength of our Mooneys, they are still light aircraft where we sit in a very confined space, not transport category stuff designed to encounter those conditions every day.  A few years ago in similar clear conditions an A36 Bonanza performing an Angel Flight had one of its top left or right access cowl separate overflying mountains to the west of Sydney.

When I fly the work plane, a heavy transport category turboprop,  these conditions are regularly encountered more so during certain times of the year,  which does not worry me.  However, I will not subject my Mooney to these environmental conditions due to examples given by Piloto and other potential issues.  I wonder if it also effects tank sealant?

When I fly my own I like to enjoy it as much as practical.  I am not unrealistic and expect smooth air everywhere I go, but widespread extreme forecast - forget it.

YMMV

[Piloto]

One of the hardest turbulence to cope with is CAT (Clear Air Turbulence). It typically occurs above 30,000 ft on the boundary of the jet stream with no prior indication but a sudden jolt. During the 1990s I worked at AlliedSignal trying to find a detection mean. Thermal imaging and Doppler shift were the options. Each one had limitations and no 100% detection.

José

[flyboy0681]

The worst I ever encountered was entering an updraft in IMC. No matter how much I read about it during my training, nothing prepared me for the real thing and I was white knuckled going through it. Lucky for me it lasted maybe a minute but it was a very rough ride. Thankfully the wing stayed on.

[Hank]

2 hours ago, flyboy0681 said:

The worst I ever encountered was entering an updraft in IMC. No matter how much I read about it during my training, nothing prepared me for the real thing and I was white knuckled going through it. Lucky for me it lasted maybe a minute but it was a very rough ride. Thankfully the wing stayed on.

My first solo trip in the clouds was with my wife. We bounced along at 7000 msl, couldn't see nothing. After about a half hour, somewhere over SC, we hit a smooth updraft. Reduced throttle, gave her 10° nose down and still climbing 1500 fpm, while ATC and some airliner were chatting back and forth with no break. Finally broke in to ask for block clearance, and was able to level off at 8600 (wow! Was it really just one minute?) and saw scattered blue above us. Asked for my filed 10,000 msl, ATC came back that I would need to deviate around Charlotte. "Deviate me, then, but let me climb into the clear!" 

Blue skies, smooth ride, scattered buildups easy to see and dodge from above at 10,000 msl. Oh, my deviation w as 10° right. To avoid that, they kept me in the goo, dark and rough . . . . But I didn't complain, I was too happy and didn't want to get sent back down if I pissed her off . . . .

[M016576]

On 5/11/2018 at 10:50 AM, gsxrpilot said:

Flying in a Velocity once, I was very concerned that each and every little bump had the canard on the front bouncing. It was very disconcerting and there is no way I could sit there and watch it move around no matter how sure I was it wouldn't ever brake off.

I'm confident there's no turbulence that would take a wing off a Mooney. We do however, need to keep the tail on as well. But that is very stout and as @donkaye said, certified to 3.8g's.

 

Man.... I remember my first flight in the F/A-18... I was in the middle of a 7G break turn and looked out the right side of the canopy and the flutter on the wingtip must have been at least 2-3 feet!  In the F-15, the wing is stable as a rock... but if you make the mistake of looking in the mirrors at the tails, you see that they vibrate about 1-2 feet left/right during high G/high AOA maneuvering.  Not to say that’s OK in a Mooney or a velocity, but it certainly gets your attention!

[M016576]

On 5/10/2018 at 10:44 PM, xcrmckenna said:

 

Unlike most pilots I get scared hitting turbulence at cruise. It doesn’t take much turbulence before I’m slowing down to Va.

 

I was wondering what is a reasonable amount of turbulence or severity of turbulence it takes you guys to start slowing down in your Mooney? And if my concern is really valid.

 

This last weekend I flew down to KSAC. 40 minutes of the flight I was getting tossed around pretty good. And I missed the benefit of a nice tail wind. The sectional even indicates the area of extreme turbulence, on Sunday it was spot on.

 

 

 

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I fly in the Juniper/Hart and Goose MOA’s daily... typically in The late morning or mid afternoon.  Turbulence is a fact of life in this area.  If you have to fly through that area in the summer time, pick the early (pre-9AM)or late (post 6pm) time of day to outright avoid it.  If the winds are above about 20kts from the west, you’re GOING to have light-mod... probably up to 13K.  Sometimes much higher.  In a fighter jet it’s just another thing you deal with.  

I asked a similar question of what people were comfortable with IRT turbulence after a particularly rough afternoon back in January and got a few different answers- most consistent with your thread here.  My question was more about “when to call it a day” in the Mooney, primarily because I’m a bit numb to turbulence since I deal with it so often.   @donkaye said something to the effect of “if you have to ask that question, it’s probably time to land.”  Most likely that’s sage advice.

[RLCarter]

During my Instr training coming home from an X-country I got into 45 minutes of up and down drafts, called ATC for a block, they gave me 1k above and below, asked them for 2k above and below, once I had the block my work load went WAY down and I just road them out, my CFII said something to the effect of "welcome to flying small airplanes"

[xcrmckenna]

I fly in the Juniper/Hart and Goose MOA’s daily... typically in The late morning or mid afternoon.  Turbulence is a fact of life in this area.  If you have to fly through that area in the summer time, pick the early (pre-9AM)or late (post 6pm) time of day to outright avoid it.  If the winds are above about 20kts from the west, you’re GOING to have light-mod... probably up to 13K.  Sometimes much higher.  In a fighter jet it’s just another thing you deal with.  
I asked a similar question of what people were comfortable with IRT turbulence after a particularly rough afternoon back in January and got a few different answers- most consistent with your thread here.  My question was more about “when to call it a day” in the Mooney, primarily because I’m a bit numb to turbulence since I deal with it so often.   [mention=7354]donkaye[/mention] said something to the effect of “if you have to ask that question, it’s probably time to land.”  Most likely that’s sage advice.

I found your thread after I posted mine. It was a good read and answered my questions. I flew over to Christmas Valley today and relaxed a little more and the plane made it back in one piece.


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[mike_elliott]

On 5/11/2018 at 12:10 PM, Yetti said:

Just curious what do people believe the Va is for their Mooney

sq root of 3.8 x the stall speed at your given weight.