Help. Need a M20C tail pipe quickly...

[DXB]

I saw this problem when putting my plane away this afternoon and emitted an expletive.   I'm pretty sure the issue wasn't there when I pre-flighted this morning .  I can't say this tailpipe looks particularly airworthy to my untrained eye. I'm using the plane heavily right now because I have an instrument checkride scheduled in 10 days, and the DPE  my CFII wants me to use won't be available for quite a while after that date, so I'm really motivated to fix the problem quickly. 

Per the logs, the exhaust was installed new in 1998, P/N K630060MA.   I found a tail pipe here: https://www.aircraftexhaust.com/nav.cfm?cat=11&subcat=67&subsub=0&as_id=8&mg_id=74&sys_id=177&display=system I'm thinking of calling them Monday am and begging them to overnight it.   My questions:

1. Is this the right part for me?

2. Any other places I should look for the part? Does anyone happen to have one laying around that they'd sell to me and fast ship?

3. Is it a quick easy install ? Any pitfalls?

4. Any other parts needed for the swap that I should order?

5. Is this a sign that my entire exhaust system is reaching the end of its life , and i should consider swapping it entirely at annual in order to escape an untimely demise from CO poisoning?

[Guest]

Other than the support for the tail pipe, there are 3 spring loaded bolts which hold it to the muffler.

Clarence

Edited May 5, 2018 by M20Doc

[HRM]

16 minutes ago, DXB said:

Is it a quick easy install ? Any pitfalls?

Pretty much, as Clarence said there are three drilled bolts that go into a pair of flanges that hold the pipe onto the muffler. There are castellated (castle) nuts and springs along with washers. The nuts are secured with cotters or safety wire. Given the state of your pipe, there is a good chance that at least one of these fasteners is so grody that it will break on removal. The trick (ask me how I know) with putting this on is to get the flanges lined-up such that you can get at each of the bolts to be able to see the hole so that you can get the cotter or safety wire in.

If a Mooney A&P does this it will most likely appear that he has skills in the dark arts. It was designed to make the exhaust easy to remove at annual, but when done for the first time can cause, well, stress. I think I took it on and off three times before I figured it out, but then again this is plumbing and not electrical.

[carusoam]

Dev,

See how many hours you have on your exhaust parts...

the parts closest to the exhaust valve see the highest temps and are most susceptible to erosion.

The failed part you have... got pretty thin before it failed...

Now the question is... is there a way to measure the exhaust system’s sheet metal thickness...?

 

Consider a two point five pronged approach...

1) Solve today’s challenge...   with a new tail piece... it is like a ball sitting in a socket on one end... a pretty quick fix. (As described above)

 

2) Solve the longer term challenge...   If it’s original to the aircraft... consider a new Powerflow if available for the O360.  Great for a forever plane....

2.5) Send whole thing out to Dawley to be rebuilt/OHd/remanned....

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

 

[Jerry Pressley]

I have a tailpipe for the 180 but in en emergency you can cut off the damaged part and still have a pipe similar to other type 180 pipe.  jerryr p  4232313491

 

[DXB]

2 hours ago, carusoam said:

Solve the longer term challenge...   If it’s original to the aircraft... consider a new Powerflow if available for the O360.  Great for a forever plane....



Exhaust was installed new in '98 - meaning original had a 30 year run. With this one at 20 years, I'm hoping it's just the tail pipe that's bad right now. The exhaust has been off the plane entirely the last two annuals for cylinder work with no other problems noted.  If I need a new one, the idea of a Powerflow is hard to resist.  With that and Sabremech's cowl, I'm hoping to run with the stock E models one day .

[HRM]

4 hours ago, DXB said:

I can't say this tailpipe looks particularly airworthy to my untrained eye. I'm using the plane heavily right now because I have an instrument checkride scheduled in 10 days, and the DPE  my CFII wants me to use won't be available for quite a while after that date, so I'm really motivated to fix the problem quickly. 

Now I am going to wax a bit philosophical since you have a plan.

Why can't you just wrap the pipe with muffler tape until you can get the part in and do a proper repair? The problem with it as is is exhaust gases in the cockpit and possibly some degradation in power from altered flow, other than that I frankly don't see much of an issue. Is there an obscure rule that let's you get away with a field fix? 

[Hank]

4 hours ago, DXB said:

I saw this problem when putting my plane away this afternoon and emitted an expletive.   I'm pretty sure the issue wasn't there when I pre-flighted this morning .  I can't say this tailpipe looks particularly airworthy to my untrained eye. I'm using the plane heavily right now because I have an instrument checkride scheduled in 10 days, and the DPE  my CFII wants me to use won't be available for quite a while after that date, so I'm really motivated to fix the problem quickly. 

Per the logs, the exhaust was installed new in 1998, P/N K630060MA.   I found a tail pipe here: https://www.aircraftexhaust.com/nav.cfm?cat=11&subcat=67&subsub=0&as_id=8&mg_id=74&sys_id=177&display=system I'm thinking of calling them Monday am and begging them to overnight it.   My questions:

1. Is this the right part for me?

2. Any other places I should look for the part? Does anyone happen to have one laying around that they'd sell to me and fast ship?

3. Is it a quick easy install ? Any pitfalls?

4. Any other parts needed for the swap that I should order?

5. Is this a sign that my entire exhaust system is reaching the end of its life , and i should consider swapping it entirely at annual in order to escape an untimely demise from CO poisoning?

 

Didn't you buy a quality aviation CO monitor when Dan posted the 20% discount code? Last I heard they were still honoring it, and had sold more than 500 units with that code. Many of us are safer now, and I for one have also checked my home (gas logs and gas stove) and my truck cabin. I'm safe.

[Andy95W]

3 hours ago, acpartswhse said:

in en emergency you can cut off the damaged part and still have a pipe similar to other type 180 pipe.  

/\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\

This.

And/or, while you have it off, take it to a local muffler shop to weld on a patch.  That'll definitely get you through your checkride while you wait on your new tailpipe.

This is a pretty common place for the pipe to erode.  I think there is a good chance the rest of your exhaust is probably still in pretty good shape. Maybe not another 10 years, but probably 3-5 years without an issue.

[DXB]

17 hours ago, HRM said:

Why can't you just wrap the pipe with muffler tape until you can get the part in and do a proper repair? The problem with it as is is exhaust gases in the cockpit and possibly some degradation in power from altered flow, other than that I frankly don't see much of an issue. Is there an obscure rule that let's you get away with a field fix? 

Lead us not into the temptation of $5 solutions that likely would work   - I'm almost cheap enough to try it .   I suspect the appearance of tape holding together my exhaust may not make the best first impression upon my DPE though, even if by some chance it is legal.

19 hours ago, acpartswhse said:

I have a tailpipe for the 180 but in en emergency you can cut off the damaged part and still have a pipe similar to other type 180 pipe. 

 

15 hours ago, Andy95W said:

/\ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\

This.

And/or, while you have it off, take it to a local muffler shop to weld on a patch.  That'll definitely get you through your checkride while you wait on your new tailpipe.

This is a pretty common place for the pipe to erode.  I think there is a good chance the rest of your exhaust is probably still in pretty good shape. Maybe not another 10 years, but probably 3-5 years without an issue.

This hacksaw idea is also tempting for a CB like me.  However I would lose the end of the pipe that angles down, and I'm worried what the hot gas would blow back onto, particularly on the ground. It seems like the straight  version of the tail pipe I've seen angles down a lot more, and perhaps creates a lot more drag.  Anyway there's a bunch of cracks emanating from the hole, so I'd best see if I can scrounge up another one one the phone tomorrow. 

[Jerry Pressley]

your downturned one is not the normal pipe we see on most mooneys soooooooooooooo.  i dont have one turned down like yours but i do have half a dozen normal ones for $150

[Jim Peace]

My mechanic replaced mine a few years ago....it looks likes this on a 64c..I do not think it was cheap, he got it made by a place called AWI

https://awi-ami.com

[Yetti]

The aircraftexhaust.com folks is a one piece of pipe and should last longer than the welded up one.  It's stainless if you had exhaust shop with the right mandrels they could make a replacement.  The aircraftexhaust.com one was about $400.00 if I recall.

[Marauder]

On 5/5/2018 at 6:15 PM, DXB said:

I saw this problem when putting my plane away this afternoon and emitted an expletive.   I'm pretty sure the issue wasn't there when I pre-flighted this morning .  I can't say this tailpipe looks particularly airworthy to my untrained eye. I'm using the plane heavily right now because I have an instrument checkride scheduled in 10 days, and the DPE  my CFII wants me to use won't be available for quite a while after that date, so I'm really motivated to fix the problem quickly. 

Per the logs, the exhaust was installed new in 1998, P/N K630060MA.   I found a tail pipe here: https://www.aircraftexhaust.com/nav.cfm?cat=11&subcat=67&subsub=0&as_id=8&mg_id=74&sys_id=177&display=system I'm thinking of calling them Monday am and begging them to overnight it.   My questions:

1. Is this the right part for me?

2. Any other places I should look for the part? Does anyone happen to have one laying around that they'd sell to me and fast ship?

3. Is it a quick easy install ? Any pitfalls?

4. Any other parts needed for the swap that I should order?

5. Is this a sign that my entire exhaust system is reaching the end of its life , and i should consider swapping it entirely at annual in order to escape an untimely demise from CO poisoning?

Dev- I would have the end cut off  not sure how low your exhaust hangs down below the fuselage, but here are a couple of shots of other exhaust pipes on Mooneys  

 

 

[Gerbil]

Acorn Welding  did some solid work for me last week and had a real quick turn time. They could probably get you a replacement or repair yours.

 

Gerbil

[DXB]

10 hours ago, Marauder said:

Dev- I would have the end cut off  not sure how low your exhaust hangs down below the fuselage, but here are a couple of shots of other exhaust pipes on Mooneys  

 

 

Thanks Chris I think yours and the short one below it are angled down much more than mine. I'm worried cutting off the downturned end on mine would leave hot gas blowing over the belly panels and the transponder/marker beacon antennas when on the ground.

[Marauder]

2 minutes ago, DXB said:

Thanks Chris I think yours and the short one below it are angled down much more than mine. I'm worried cutting off the downturned end on mine would leave hot gas blowing over the belly panels and the transponder/marker beacon antennas when on the ground.

Have you checked with Alan Fox? He might have one. 

[mike20papa]

I've got a complete single pipe 180hp system I would sell.  Outer heater shroud is a bit rough, but all is serviceable.

[DXB]

So it turns out my tailpipe looks different from most others because the plane had a Knisley Exhaust System (https://knisleyexhaust.com/mooney-m-20-180-hp-exhaust) installed in '98. It would not  have been a direct swap to one of the straight tail pipes most folks have.  It took a little time on the phone with a very helpful guy (Charlie) at Awi-ami (https://awi-ami.com/) to figure this out.  They don't carry those systems anymore but referred me to Aircraftexhaust.com.  They didn't have it in stock either but got one shipped from Knisley in CA for $399 plus an arm/leg for overnight shipping.

Interestingly, some anecdotes on here report unadvertised speed increases and generally favorable experiences with the Knisley exhausts, which cost a bit less than even the standard exhausts.

 

[Marauder]

51 minutes ago, DXB said:

So it turns out my tailpipe looks different from most others because the plane had a Knisley Exhaust System (https://knisleyexhaust.com/mooney-m-20-180-hp-exhaust) installed in '98. It would not  have been a direct swap to one of the straight tail pipes most folks have.  It took a little time on the phone with a very helpful guy (Charlie) at Awi-ami (https://awi-ami.com/) to figure this out.  They don't carry those systems anymore but referred me to Aircraftexhaust.com.  They didn't have it in stock either but got one shipped from Knisley in CA for $399 plus an arm/leg for overnight shipping.

Interestingly, some anecdotes on here report unadvertised speed increases and generally favorable experiences with the Knisley exhausts, which cost a bit less than even the standard exhausts.

 

Glad to hear there is a solution. I was about to cut this bad boy off of this car for you.

[DXB]

20 minutes ago, Marauder said:

Glad to hear there is a solution. I was about to cut this bad boy off of this car for you.

Thanks Chris - now I can move on to tuning my own personal exhaust system.  Should be good for a couple kts.

[thinwing]

Beans Beans the musical fruit......

[MARZ]

22 hours ago, Jim Peace said:

My mechanic replaced mine a few years ago....it looks likes this on a 64c..I do not think it was cheap, he got it made by a place called AWI

https://awi-ami.com

oOOOOOOooooHHHHH  PRETTY!!  I need one.

[Yetti]

The castle nuts with springy things are lesson in working blind.   A flashlight and a bit of feel and paying attention to where the hole should be before you start the nut is important.  The last person who put mine together made a mess of all the washers in how they should have been done.

[HRM]

On 5/7/2018 at 3:34 PM, Yetti said:

The castle nuts with springy things are lesson in working blind.   A flashlight and a bit of feel and paying attention to where the hole should be before you start the nut is important.  The last person who put mine together made a mess of all the washers in how they should have been done.

I got a set of these 'free' with a purchase at HF a while back. Invaluable when working the 'springy things'. Useful when lining up other holes as well.