Diamond in the rough or money pit?

[Ptwob_gaona]

This caught my eye, mainly because it said "one owner". I plan to contact seller for more information but any specific questions I should ask. I have many in mind ( why TT so low, how often flown in last year, mx location, etc). Anyone near this part of Chicago or know the plane?

 

 

Check out this listing on Trade-A-Plane: http://www.trade-a-plane.com/search?listing_id=2280593

 

Thanks!

 

Joey

 

 

 

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[carusoam]

Start reviewing the logs...

The panel looks historic...

One owner is an interesting, but not very meaningful criteria...

There is no such thing as a barn find, or diamond in the rough....

What are you looking for in terms of mission capability?

Best regards,

-a-

[Andy95W]

My rough estimate is that once you overhaul the engine and prop, install a new interior, upgrade the avionics, install ADSB, and (just a guess) repair the autopilot, you'll have a really nice $110,000 airplane with old paint that you've spent $120,000 on.

Then again, if you do your own work and if it doesn't have any corrosion- sure.

[Ptwob_gaona]

Agreed, that's the next step for sure.

Mission is 4-500nm a hop with the family and luggage for a week stay with relatives (laundry required is assumed, no diva luggage entourage in this family). Favoring Fs or Js for the legroom while still having Mooney efficiency & speed. Since I'm new to the idea of ownership, I'm using $50k as a starting point to allow funds for all the other aspects of ownership.

I could end up staying with rentals fora a few more years but just going through the research and factors to consider has taught me a lot.


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[jetdriven]

Be ready to drop a 30k engine in it as soon as you take possession. It's not even a very real possibility, it's a given. 

[jlunseth]

You would spend 50k on avionics upgrades.

[TTaylor]

Nothing is a given.  The engine may or may not need to be overhauled, the interior is fine for a family traveling aircraft, the instruments are old but usable.  It will require an ADS-B upgrade ($3000 to $7000) within a few years. 

For someone looking at F or J's in the $50K range it is a staring point. It looks like it has been well cared for and  kept hangared.  I would figure at least $15k for reserves depending on how much it has flown.  Recognize you could end up needing to overhaul the engine as part of the risk.  On the upside you could potential fly 500 hours or more before you need to do the overhaul.

You will hear the naysayers tell you that the engine is definitely dead, the interior must be upgraded to leather and you must have a full glass panel to fly the way they thing you should.  As long as the engine is fine all the rest wont make the plane fly any better or faster.  A $200 tablet and a Stratux unit will give you all that you need to fly VFR  safely.  

Bottom line is it is a J, and it is a great base airplane to fly and improve over the long haul if you can afford to take the risk.  

 

 

Edited August 28, 2017 by TTaylor

[ArtVandelay]

Maybe.  Maybe not.  Engines are mandatory.  Avionics are not.  I love how everyone assumes everyone else flies the same way they do.  

Starting in 2020, a certain level of avionics is mandatory.

[Guest]

I hope that buzzing sound isn't Alan warming up his saw!

Clarence

[LANCECASPER]

Depending on your flying and a good pre-buy, if the engine has good compression, I'd add a Garmin GDL-82 and slap an iPad with Foreflight on the yoke and fly it for a few years. If it's been maintained you could probably fly it for a few years and get your money back.

[rbridges]

It's averaging 40 hours/year.  If it were spread out evenly and flown every 2-3 weeks for an hour or two, the engine could still be in decent shape for several more years.  It could be a decent buy for an inexpensive J given the limitations people mentioned above.

[ArtVandelay]

I'm not so sure. I refer to the 2020 "mandate" as "the big lie". There is a lot of airspace out there that will not require ADS-B. Many, many airplanes will not comply. At least not at first. Many never will because they simply are not flown in that airspace. We must all remember that when we are staring at our screens.
Jim

If you plan on going cross country you are going to need ADSB, trying to avoid the airspace where it's required is going to limit your options both in flight and what destinations you choose.
If you are just buying a plane only for the $100 hamburger trips, there are alot cheaper ways to accomplish that mission than buying a Mooney. Buying a Mooney for that purpose is like buying a Corvette to be your commuter vehicle. Yes, it will do it just fine, but that's not where it really shines.
I'm sure we when through this when Mode C transponders were required.

[steingar]

5 hours ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

I'm not so sure. I refer to the 2020 "mandate" as "the big lie". There is a lot of airspace out there that will not require ADS-B. Many, many airplanes will not comply. At least not at first. Many never will because they simply are not flown in that airspace. We must all remember that when we are staring at our screens.

Jim

Where do the vast majority of pilots live?  Where the vast majority of people live.  In and around big cities, mostly on the coasts.  Mostly where all the controlled airspace is.  Yeah, you might  be able to fly without ADS-B if you live in the sticks.  But good luck when you go to sell your aircraft.  The ones with the ADSB will sell first.  And have fun going around all that airspace on your cross countries.

As far as the OP's Mooney, I''d like to know what kind of 201 all the naysayers think they're going to buy for 50K?  Personally, I think its fairly priced, so long as the airframe is clean.  Nice thing about a 201 is if you put some money in there is a chance to get it back.

[jaylw314]

Remember, after 2020 without ADS-B Out, you can still request ATC prior approval for rule airspace as long as you make the request at least an hour beforehand

[FlyWalt]

<Raising Hand in the back of the classroom>

 

UUUUMMMMM,

Can someone tell me what is WRONG with that interior? The seats look like nice older leather in good shape.

 

[Bravoman]

The seller might let her go for a good bit less. Certainly in the high 30s it would seem to make sense if the airframe is solid. 

[Bob - S50]

I think it's worth a look.  It looks ...exactly... like our plane color wise.  Ours is also a '78, had 800 total time, and sat unused in a hangar for 10 years before we bought it from LASAR.  LASAR did $35,000 worth of repair on it, but did not overhaul the engine.  Prop yes.  Mag yes.  If yours has been flying it probably needs even less work.  Talk to the mechanic that has been doing the maintenance.  If you are still happy, get an annual or pre-buy done by a different mechanic.  If you are still happy then buy it.

But as I've said many times before, ALWAYS ask about the useful load before you do anything else.  Our minimum was 950 lbs. when we were looking.

[1964-M20E]

If the engine checks out and there is no showstopping corrosion or other squaks then it comes down to avionics and how you intend to fly.  VFR avionics minus ADSB out are just fine to fly with for years and you still have 3 years to comply with ADSB out.

If you are going to fly IFR the installed avionics will work however, a new WASS GPS would make life much nicer.  JMHO

[jetdriven]

8 minutes ago, Bob - S50 said:

I think it's worth a look.  It looks ...exactly... like our plane color wise.  Ours is also a '78, had 800 total time, and sat unused in a hangar for 10 years before we bought it from LASAR.  LASAR did $35,000 worth of repair on it, but did not overhaul the engine.  Prop yes.  Mag yes.  If yours has been flying it probably needs even less work.  Talk to the mechanic that has been doing the maintenance.  If you are still happy, get an annual or pre-buy done by a different mechanic.  If you are still happy then buy it.

But as I've said many times before, ALWAYS ask about the useful load before you do anything else.  Our minimum was 950 lbs. when we were looking.

So if the engine starts spalling the cam as a large percentage do, you would have put 60-65K into your airplane. The very same possibility exists here.  

Im not saying don't buy it, but you need to have a HUGE cash reserve for things that can and will go wrong.  We paid 65k for ours and had to put an engine on it a year later. I paid the shop 2k for their space and supervision, and had the prop inspected for 650$, not overhauled. Yet it was still a 35,500$ event and the engine cost 2k more now. You can do it a little cheaper but then you often have to do it again, cam spalling is a scourge.   You have to be able to write a check for this. 

Edited August 28, 2017 by jetdriven

[FlyWalt]

13 minutes ago, 1964-M20E said:

If you are going to fly IFR the installed avionics will work however, a new WASS GPS would make life much nicer.  JMHO

I would save my money on a "new" WAAS GPS by finding an overhauled GNS430, 480 or 530. Unless one has money to burn, you can find these units with careful screening of the market.

[neilpilot]

26 minutes ago, 1964-M20E said:

 VFR avionics minus ADSB out are just fine to fly with for years and you still have 3 years to comply with ADSB out.

Actually, 2 years and 4 months.  

[mccdeuce]

could be a great find.  Overhaul the engine and paint the aircraft.  In 6 months put in a Dynon SkyView for $25k and you have an amazing "new" aircraft. 

 

could also cost a fortune if the airframe is full of corrosion. 

[FlyWalt]

And what is wrong with the paint job? If it is free of nicks then a good detail would save a lot of money.

[steingar]

52 minutes ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

Believe it or not, a lot of people live and fly outside of Class B and C.

Jim

Believe it or not, a lot more people don't.  The problem isn't when you fly your aircraft.  You live in the boonies, reap the benefits.  I get it.

Now go to sell your cherished aircraft.  Airplanes are mostly not sold locally, most aircraft are advertised regionally or nationally.  Without the ADS-B you are excluding anyone who lives anywhere near controlled airspace, and that's a lot of people.  Either that, or they'll be asking for the deduction in price to infall what is now required equipment.  Or they'll just pass on your aircraft and buy he one that already has the ADS-B.

[Ptwob_gaona]

I'm on the road for a family trip, ironically. Thank you for the thoughts so far. Much to consider but I prefer thinking/asking up front. I read sthread on spalling, I'll have to reread it since I'm a bit ignorant what it is exactly...other than something bad.


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