Another dead battery- again- ideas please?

[pkofman]

In the winter I had a new battery installed because it was dead and would not take a charge. (1998 - m20m ) . it was replaced with a brand new one.

I thought it was just the cold or a faulty battery

Today, in the heat of summer the new no-1 battery was dead and I had to start the engine on #2. ( which was successful )

Something is draining my #1 battery with the master off.

I can swear that everything is off

I can start the plane on #2 . no problem  ( i then switch back to no#1) which I hope is an ok thing to do.

After running the plane for about an hour the #1 will start the plane again

Has anyone experienced this ? The only thing that I can see that remains on after the master is off is the factory little clock.
but I would have a hard time believing that that would drain the battery , but I could be wrong.

Thoughts. 

Pete

[LANCECASPER]

Did you take it to Clarence to have him take a look at it?

 

[StevenL757]

Pete...are you using Gill or Concorde batteries?  In either case, I would do a capacity test on both.  Anything below 75% is an indication the battery needs replacing.  Also, how often do you fly the airplane?

Steve

[Jerry 5TJ]

If you suspect a "phantom load" is draining the battery why not test it?  

Turn master switch off.  

disconnect one terminal of #1 battery (either one).

connect a milliampere meter between that terminal and its lead.

if there's current flow of more than a few milliamperes then look for the cause.  

 

 

[larryb]

Accidentally hitting the cabin light switch killed a battery for me.

[pkofman]

41 minutes ago, StevenL757 said:

Pete...are you using Gill or Concorde batteries?  In either case, I would do a capacity test on both.  Anything below 75% is an indication the battery needs replacing.  Also, how often do you fly the airplane?

Steve

Gill...

[ArtVandelay]

Either you are overcharging, undercharging, or draining it. Disconnect the battery positive terminal, use a multimeter setup to measure amps (usually requires a different input jack) and put in circuit, it should read 0, or very close to it. Check voltage at the battery when engine is running, should be 13.8 - 14.0.

[ArtVandelay]

Gill...

It doesn't matter battery maker, but wet cells require maintenance, when is the last time you check the electrolyte level?

[Jerry 5TJ]

58 minutes ago, StevenL757 said:

Pete...are you using Gill or Concorde batteries?  In either case, I would do a capacity test on both.  Anything below 75% is an indication the battery needs replacing.  Also, how often do you fly the airplane?

Steve

The Concorde test specification is in fact 85%.  

Ref: Concorde Battery Documentation

See page 101. 

[Yetti]

cigarette lighter (have a usb adapter plugged in?)  cabin light and clock are things that are known to be hot when the master is off.

[carusoam]

Sources of battery killing devices

1) ADSB plugged into cigarette lighter... (easy killer when you come back after a week)

2) cabin light switch at the baggage compartment will do it... (only noticeable in the dark)

3) Other interior lights? (passengers have access to)

4) Instrument memories... clock, Fuel used, radio frequencies, (very low usage)

These are the ones that come to mind...

How long did it take to kill the battery in your case?  How dead is it?  It may not be a good idea to charge it while flying if it is really dead.  It can cause an unusually high load for the alternator and wiring system...

PP ideas only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

[RLCarter]

Battery life can be drastically shortened if the battery was not initially set up correctly regardless of “Type” or “Brand”. Maintenance Free (No Filler Caps) now have the acid installed at the manufacture due to being overfilled in the field and still have to charged before installation, wet cell (filler caps) have to sit after the acid is added before charging (I generally let them sit overnight), not letting the plates to get fully saturated before charging will cause the dry spots in the plates to get burned, reducing the capacity of the battery. On wet cell batteries the water in the electrolyte will evaporate, heat accelerates the process so check you water levels more when in use and/or as the ambient temperature goes up. A low electrolyte level exposes the tops of the plates which will cause damage to the plates, if you find you are having to add water more than normal and the battery is not damaged (leaking) check your charging system as it is probably over charging causing excessive heat (evaporation).

[LANCECASPER]

5 hours ago, pkofman said:

Gill...

Friends don't let friends buy Gill batteries . . . after buying many Gills I found out personally that the Concorde sealed battery (24-15) is a much better battery.

[pkofman]

2 hours ago, carusoam said:

Sources of battery killing devices

1) ADSB plugged into cigarette lighter... (easy killer when you come back after a week)

2) cabin light switch at the baggage compartment will do it... (only noticeable in the dark)

3) Other interior lights? (passengers have access to)

4) Instrument memories... clock, Fuel used, radio frequencies, (very low usage)

These are the ones that come to mind...

How long did it take to kill the battery in your case?  How dead is it?  It may not be a good idea to charge it while flying if it is really dead.  It can cause an unusually high load for the alternator and wiring system...

PP ideas only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-

Thanks for this. I fly this plane weekly but given the lousy weather lately i might have left it for 10 days. I dont think the battery was completely dead , It just could not turn over the engine so i used #2 and then flicked it back to #1 once running.  After an hour it was able to start the plane. This just does not seem normal to me Pete

[LANCECASPER]

19 minutes ago, pkofman said:

so i used #2 and then flicked it back to #1 once running

Probably not a good idea . . .

 

[pkofman]

13 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

Probably not a good idea . . .

 

Well once again i learn from this forum .Based upon what im reading , best to start on #2 and the fly on that battery. Ie no change with the master on.

That seems to be pretty  easy.

I can always monitor the charge on #1, but no particular reason( as i understand it to have to go back to #1)  once the plane has started on #2.

Peter

 

[carusoam]

The Fuzzy part is how discharged the battery could have been...and the risks that come with a high charging rate.

Then there is the unfriendly part... Gills have been known to be unfriendly to weekend only flyers...

A certain amount discharge occurs weekly.  Three weeks loses a fair amount of capacity...  as measured by a battery minder on Concorde battery.

Gills have a tendency to get week over their first year and fail the capacity test at the second annual.

Is your dead battery a Gill?  How old is it? If it's into its second year plan on replacing it soon...

 

Over the last seven years I have bought a Gill battery every annual.  Halfway through the experience I bought the Gill battery charger. Throwing good dough after bad dough...

Now I have two Concordes and a battery minder... the Jury is still out, but the battery minder is looking good...

Best regards,

-a-

[carqwik]

1) Gill 243S battery is junk...BTDT

2) Replace with Concorde RG24-15

3) Use BatteryMinder tender specifically for the Concorde RG battery

[HRM]

4 minutes ago, carqwik said:

1) Gill 243S battery is junk...BTDT

2) Replace with Concorde RG24-15

3) Use BatteryMinder tender specifically for the Concorde RG battery

• I agree with all except #3, an "aviation" BM cooked my last Concorde. I use a NOCO Genius now and it's 16 v desulphation mode has restored my Concorde to like new. It could be the ungodly steam heat of Southeast Texas so go with what works for you.

[carusoam]

Harley, got a link for the noco genius?

Best regards,

-a-

[Danb]

Reasonable dumb question, using a batteryminder on a Bravo does in only work on one battery since we have two?

[ArtVandelay]

The Fuzzy part is how discharged the battery could have been...and the risks that come with a high charging rate.
Then there is the unfriendly part... Gills have been known to be unfriendly to weekend only flyers...
A certain amount discharge occurs weekly.  Three weeks loses a fair amount of capacity...  as measured by a battery minder on Concorde battery.
Gills have a tendency to get week over their first year and fail the capacity test at the second annual.
Is your dead battery a Gill?  How old is it? If it's into its second year plan on replacing it soon...
 
Over the last seven years I have bought a Gill battery every annual.  Halfway through the experience I bought the Gill battery charger. Throwing good dough after bad dough...
Now I have two Concordes and a battery minder... the Jury is still out, but the battery minder is looking good...
Best regards,
-a-

My previous Gill lasted 7 years, current is 3 yrs old. You either had charging issues or you failed to maintain it. Don't blame Gill.

[ArtVandelay]

Reasonable dumb question, using a batteryminder on a Bravo does in only work on one battery since we have two?

It will work if both are connected, but will take longer to top the batteries off. You can verify this just by checking the voltage on the batteries, they both should be the same with BM attached.

[Bob_Belville]

If you have a EDM or a steam voltage meter in the panel what voltage are you seeing in cruise? My E model (12V) should be 13.8-14.0 V. The Plane Power voltage regulator has an adjustment pot. 

Caveat, your system might be different so check what the value should be. Low voltage will dramatically affect starting.  

[LANCECASPER]

3 hours ago, Danb said:

Reasonable dumb question, using a batteryminder on a Bravo does in only work on one battery since we have two?

Only if you hook up a splitter and have the Batteryminder take care of both of them at the same time. Otherwise you need a Batteryminder for each battery (waste of money).

(this is the Batteryminder for 24 volt Concorde Batteries: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/batteryminder11-14352.php?clickkey=58037&PANEL=292Click%2BHere%2Bfor%2BSlick%2BStyle%252FabrA%2BHREF%253D)

Take the extension (see below) and run it out your oxygen door with just enough to hook up to your battery tender (so that when you unplug, the little bit of cord will tuck in the O2 door and allow you to close it). Inside the avionics bay hook up the other end to the 210-AY splitter and then run your battery leads to the splitter. Clean up the cords and zip tie everything so it doesn't interfere with anything else going on back there.

For these extra Batteryminder cords RVupgrades.com seems to have the best price.