Andy95W Posted August 3, 2017 Report Posted August 3, 2017 2 hours ago, Raptor05121 said: I would ask him why his plane having 20 more HP makes it any more capable than a C? Agreed! You should seriously ask the M20F owner this question and watch him fumble for an answer. Quote
carusoam Posted August 3, 2017 Report Posted August 3, 2017 A cool way to tell if your plane has the equipment needed to fly IFR... 1) there is an equipment list in the POH. VFR/day, VFR/night, IFR/day, IFR/night. Get the most recent POH for your bird's model... 2) tomato flames and Grab Card should be able to be looked up... see 1) to compare to the POH... 3) find the local IAPs for your airport and the airport's that you use. Instrument approach procedures are listed by titles. The title generally includes the type of nav equipent that is going to be used. I use WingX, many other MSers use foreflight or a Garmin product. All are good.... 4) read every word on the page starting from the top left, heading to the bottom right. There may be some other things required to locate your plane on the chart. Another VOR receiver, DME for distance, or an ADF.... 5) There is a plan B included with each IAP. It's the missed approach procedure. Make sure you have the hardware to identify all the waypoints to go missed.... when you get to a defined point, and there is no runway in sight... you are now going missed... 6) GPS makes everything a touch easier to identify exactly where you are. Make sure your GPS is IFR-able. Some can be only used for the cruise portion. Some can be used for approaches. Only WAAS ones have vertical guidance... 7) Use caution while learning your hardware. The buttonology can be confusing. You need to know what works when... are you following the box's VOR, ILS, or GPS... how do you know? 8) to really add some capability, include the AP into the mix... intercepting and following the guidance toward the ground is pretty surreal at first. 9) There are a few videos posted by MSers that include the complete radio soundtrack from take-off to landing on IFR trips. Great to watch. They have some much natural skill from doing this a lot, you may miss all the detail.... 10) Its been many years since I last flew IFR, I may have missed a few things.... let me know if I missed something. PP-IR thoughts only. Not a CFI... Best regards, -a- Quote
Hank Posted August 3, 2017 Report Posted August 3, 2017 10 hours ago, MBDiagMan said: In the course of meeting people there I met an F Model owner. Appears to be a great guy and a veteran pilot. In the course of conversation he said: "so you are a VFR pilot." I said yes, but working on my IR, how did you know? He said, " no one messes with making a C instrument capable." I was floored by this. My plane has a 430W, DME, glideslope and is currently IFR certified. Is it common fpr C's to not be IFR capable? That j@ck@ss was jealous of your hangar! My C and I are both IFR rated and capable (G430W, KY97, two VOR heads, DG, Brittain AccuTrak and AccuFlite). Granted, I still wind the yoke clock and set the red hands to the current time so I know when to switch tanks (and it's so easy to track flight time). We've been all through the Appalachians and southeast US, in all kinds of weather, but I've not had to fly an approach much lower than about 600-700'. Did have one trip, 2+hours each way, where I didn't see the ground more than 3nm before either landing, and only occasionally glimpsed other clouds between layers. Do stay away from IMC when conditions are unstable and thunderstorms are popping up. Our Mooneys are great instrument platforms, but nothing is that good! Quote
Guest paulie Posted August 3, 2017 Report Posted August 3, 2017 Very true. You must consider how long you plan on owning the plane. It's certain you won't get back what you put into it especially after a few years where even if the bells and whistles are still fully functional they are not the latest and greatest 3D heads up auto stewardess drink dispenser. Quote
gsxrpilot Posted August 3, 2017 Report Posted August 3, 2017 When I went shopping for my first Mooney, an M20C, it was specifically to get a good IFR platform. Steam gauges are fine, but some are better than others. This is what I eventually bought... there are good one's out there. An HSI, standby electric AI, WAAS GPS, and Stec autopilot with altitude hold make for a nice IFR bird. 1 Quote
Hector Posted August 3, 2017 Report Posted August 3, 2017 My C and I are both IFR rated and capable. Just had an IPC 2 weeks ago. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote
rubixcube2k3 Posted August 3, 2017 Report Posted August 3, 2017 1975 M20C - I would like to say that it's instrument capable. :-) 2 4 Quote
carusoam Posted August 3, 2017 Report Posted August 3, 2017 MS has a Swiss C with an Aspen in the panel. Thus proving the C can fly in European IMC equally well... Best regards, -a- Quote
DanM20C Posted August 3, 2017 Report Posted August 3, 2017 16 hours ago, Marauder said: Speaking of which, what happened to your plane? The plane was a total loss. The wings were cut off to recover it. Very sad, but there was no fixing it. I miss it. It was such a fantastic plane, with the exception of the little crack in the muffler I replaced it last week with a 231. I have only put 8hrs on it so far. I miss the simplicity of the 0360 but I'm fast becoming accustomed to the increased performance that the 231 has to offer. Cheers, Dan 2 Quote
RLCarter Posted August 3, 2017 Report Posted August 3, 2017 It amazes me how many pilots pop off and say stupid things, I guess they think it makes them look good....... Quote
Oscar Avalle Posted August 3, 2017 Report Posted August 3, 2017 Well, let me share with you some ideas. I strongly believe that what matters is what is behind the yoke, not necessarily what is in front of it. I have own a M20C for several years and I did quite a lot of cross country travel, domestic and international. Over mountains, over the Gulf of Mexico, you name it. I am even thinking of flying to Europe... I agree my M20C is not the fastest Mooney around but it takes me safely to where I want to go. At no point in time I felt my that something was missing, or that my M20C was not up to the task. Would I like to have a M20J with all the gadgets I have in mine, yes, I would love to and hopefully I will, but that is not a necessary condition for me to continue flying 500miles+ trips in my Mooney. Upgrades, I did a lot of upgrades to my plane. Aspen, GTN, autopilot etc. did it make sense? I guess not from a financial perspective, but again I feel safe and that is what matters to me. So don't listen that that M20F driver... just concentrate on making what is behind the joke as professional as possible and you will be OK. Oscar 3 Quote
carusoam Posted August 3, 2017 Report Posted August 3, 2017 Oscar used to post spectacular videos from Paradise... His C lived on a grass strip, amongst mountains and volcanoes... A great example of how a C can be outfitted for world travel! Best regards, -a- 1 Quote
MBDiagMan Posted August 4, 2017 Author Report Posted August 4, 2017 22 hours ago, gsxrpilot said: When I went shopping for my first Mooney, an M20C, it was specifically to get a good IFR platform. Steam gauges are fine, but some are better than others. This is what I eventually bought... there are good one's out there. An HSI, standby electric AI, WAAS GPS, and Stec autopilot with altitude hold make for a nice IFR bird. My panel compares very well with this one. I have a 430W and don't have an ADS-B transponder yet, but functionally it is a good comparison to this. Where mine falls short is its cosmetic appeal. I need to get a fresh brass looking switch label panel, and need to get my ASI cleaned up for a clear lens, and it is certified through the end of next year. Even without the 430 it would be a decent IR panel with DME, glide slope, marker beacon and so forth. The 430 is very nice icing on the cake. Mine and Paul's are pretty nice instrument planes given that C's are only for VFR pilots.:) BTW Paul, that panel looks great! 1 Quote
MBDiagMan Posted August 4, 2017 Author Report Posted August 4, 2017 BTW, I promised comments on my hangar. I am finishing up my owner assisted annual on my 140 at another airport. I gave up that hangar and have to be out by the end of the month. I hope to get it to my new hangar next week or week after along with my tools, work bench air compressor and stuff. I plan on posting pictures once everything is put away nicely. I also have a friends Cherokee Six in the hangar, so the pictures will not be pure Mooney. Quote
N6758N Posted August 4, 2017 Report Posted August 4, 2017 13 hours ago, MBDiagMan said: My panel compares very well with this one. I have a 430W and don't have an ADS-B transponder yet, but functionally it is a good comparison to this. Where mine falls short is its cosmetic appeal. I need to get a fresh brass looking switch label panel, and need to get my ASI cleaned up for a clear lens, and it is certified through the end of next year. Even without the 430 it would be a decent IR panel with DME, glide slope, marker beacon and so forth. The 430 is very nice icing on the cake. Mine and Paul's are pretty nice instrument planes given that C's are only for VFR pilots.:) BTW Paul, that panel looks great! Yep, there sure are a lot of crappy VFR panels out there in C models Here is my attempt at an IFR panel in a C. 2 Quote
Oscar Avalle Posted August 4, 2017 Report Posted August 4, 2017 22 hours ago, carusoam said: Oscar used to post spectacular videos from Paradise... His C lived on a grass strip, amongst mountains and volcanoes... A great example of how a C can be outfitted for world travel! Best regards, -a- Thank you... now I fly in the US Northeast and my videos are from the Mooney Caravan...also spectacular. Also, let's see how detail oriented you guys are... what is wrong with my Panel picture? 1 Quote
kpaul Posted August 4, 2017 Report Posted August 4, 2017 3 minutes ago, Oscar Avalle said: Thank you... now I flying in the US Northeast and my videos are from the Mooney Caravan...also spectacular. Also, let's see how detail oriented you guys are... what is wrong with my Panel picture? Oscar, It appears your back-up ADI is not much of a back-up since it does not agree with your Aspen or T&B. kp 1 Quote
Oscar Avalle Posted August 4, 2017 Report Posted August 4, 2017 2 minutes ago, kpaul said: Oscar, It appears your back-up ADI is not much of a back-up since it does not agree with your Aspen or T&B. kp wow that was fast! yes, my vacuum pump had died as soon as I took off to come back to the US....talking about caravan... 5A7FF7F4-B201-4B45-A31C-F6BE0C71FB65.MP4 Quote
kpaul Posted August 4, 2017 Report Posted August 4, 2017 3 minutes ago, Oscar Avalle said: wow that was fast! yes, my vacuum pump had died as soon as I took off to come back to the US....talking about caravan... 5A7FF7F4-B201-4B45-A31C-F6BE0C71FB65.MP4 if you always flew in formation you could dump the back-up and just use lead as your ADI. Do you have any of the video from your numerous cameras MSN-OSH? 1 Quote
Oscar Avalle Posted August 4, 2017 Report Posted August 4, 2017 3 minutes ago, kpaul said: if you always flew in formation you could dump the back-up and just use lead as your ADI. Do you have any of the video from your numerous cameras MSN-OSH? Not yet. I have some footage, but I have to edit the stuff. Had no time to do it. After Oshkosh my wife basically said enough airplanes for a while... let's go to the beach. So I arrived today in Cancun. I hope to be able to edit some stuff, while hanging out here. Quote
chrixxer Posted August 4, 2017 Report Posted August 4, 2017 On August 2, 2017 at 9:06 AM, Bob_Belville said: And it used to be that some folks proclaimed loudly that they'd never even ride in a plane with less than 4 engines. Certainly not cross an ocean in a jet with only 2. ETOPS. Engines turn or passengers swim. 3 Quote
Greg Ellis Posted August 9, 2017 Report Posted August 9, 2017 I am a little late to this topic but I would add that I own a 1963 C model. It is IFR capable including an enroute and approach certified GPS. Not WAAS mind you but it has been sufficient for my needs. No autopilot, single pilot IFR hand flying all the time. Approaches to minimums. I will add that I train with an instructor far more than is required by the FAA but I feel I have to because I do not have all the latest bells and whistles to make the flying easier. But, yes there are a lot of IFR equipped C models out there. I have a friend who even has an IFR equipped A model!!!! (Oh....what insanity!!!!) 1 Quote
bradp Posted August 10, 2017 Report Posted August 10, 2017 It probably has more to do with the other owner than actual data or reality. Also probably has something to do with the random or shotgun arrangement of many of the early C's instruments in the panel. That might not make for the most effective scan, but the plane can still be IFR despite a crappy panel. 1 Quote
chrixxer Posted August 12, 2017 Report Posted August 12, 2017 On August 9, 2017 at 6:28 AM, Greg Ellis said: I am a little late to this topic but I would add that I own a 1963 C model. It is IFR capable including an enroute and approach certified GPS. Not WAAS mind you but it has been sufficient for my needs. No autopilot, single pilot IFR hand flying all the time. Approaches to minimums. I will add that I train with an instructor far more than is required by the FAA but I feel I have to because I do not have all the latest bells and whistles to make the flying easier. But, yes there are a lot of IFR equipped C models out there. I have a friend who even has an IFR equipped A model!!!! (Oh....what insanity!!!!) Yeah, I learned in a B model that was IFR, and have flown it IFR. The scan kinda sucks, and the GPS is prehistoric (150XL IIRC, basically used as a COM and for situational awareness; everything else is through a KX-125 and KN-54) Quote
carusoam Posted August 12, 2017 Report Posted August 12, 2017 Misplaced post... it happens... -a- Quote
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