Shoulder Harness Upgrade

[MIm20c]

I recently purchased a plane without shoulder harness provisions for the pilot and copilot. I've been looking at the Alpha Aviation units but the price is ~$925 for a fixed kit with new rear belts. Looks like a 40% increase in price over the past 3 years. Do I have any other options that might be less expensive?  Thanks for the help!

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard Mlm,

Standby for an answer...

Did you get installation with that?

Best regards,

-a-

[MIm20c]

The price is just for the parts and shipping for the front (fixed) and rear belts and minor install kit. 

[par]

I'm also looking to do this to my C but the price is certainly appalling. Considering it's nothing but a seatbelt strap, how the hell they are justifying nearly a grand for it all is more than amazing. This kind of price gouging makes me want to start my own damn production line.

[MooneyMitch]

LASAR used to sell shoulder harness kit.  They may still. 

Paul & Shery Loewen, owners

Lake Aero Styling & Repair "LASAR"

Lampson Field, Lakeport CA (1O2)

Celebrating our 40th anniversary 1975-2015

shop 707 263-0412   home office 707 263-0462

www.lasar.com

[TTaylor]

Disclaimer: what follows may or may not work with your mechanic.

From my reading and understanding, you only need the Alpha Aviation hardware from the minor install kit.  The seat belts themselves can be purchased from other sources. I was lucky that a few years back there was a large lot of seat belts being sold through Mooneyspace and ebay at about $100 to $200 per complete set with retactable shoulder harness.  I bought 4 sets for the plane  at that time and got two of the install kits.    The belts were Amsafe kits with a part number of 3051-3-121-8028.

[MyNameIsNobody]

First thing I bought for the plane.  THAT IS A RIDICULOUS PRICE

I would not have paid that much.  Maybe salvage?  Good luck with your search.

[RLCarter]

I installed mine 1.5yrs ago, ordered the minor kit for the shoulder harnesses and fixed belts for pilot/copilot, ordered the rear belts a few months later. Would have to dig out the invoice, but the price seems to be about what I paid

[MB65E]

Made my own with pac-si reels. Looked up the drawings that mooney used. Sourced steel clamps for the tubing and hardware. (Most Adel clamps folks use are alumnium-bad idea here) The reels were new surplus from a supplier. I would search eBay. I have less than $250 in my front belts. There should not be a single IA that has issue with installing shoulder harness. It's not a major alteration. 

Beats thinking about the alternative!!

-Matt

[carusoam]

There are a few threads about installing the shoulder harness as well...

One side or the other is a little more difficult than other. There are some hints on how to handle the challenge.

Best regards,

-a-

[M016576]

The alpha aviation "kits" are a total rip off if you already have shoulder harnesses. If you don't, you need a way to put them in, either alphas, or Lasar.

 

if you have shoulder harnesses already, Am-safe belts are all you need (or just tso'd).  You should be able to find them, or at the very least the webbing, for less than 50 dollars (check spruce).  If you really want an inertial reel-  that will cost you a bit more- about 50 bucks per belt.  Any TSO'd belt is acceptable, and you can swap them yourself: it's part of the owner allowed maintenance under part 21.

those alpha guys are laughable- $1000 for seat belts?! Please..... totally crazy.  There is no moral ground for that kind of highway robbery.

but, sadly, some people pay the price.  And GA gets Just that much further out of reach....

Edited April 28, 2017 by M016576

[Skates97]

2 hours ago, carusoam said:

There are a few threads about installing the shoulder harness as well...

One side or the other is a little more difficult than other. There are some hints on how to handle the challenge.

Best regards,

-a-

The left side is a beast, the right side is a piece of cake. 

I guess I'm part of the problem mentioned by M016576 because I paid their price... I try to find the least expensive way to do things, but putting approved seat belts in my plane wasn't where I was going to cut corners. I did get the retractable ones and am glad I did. Yes, they were $100 more a side but in a plane I plan on keeping for a long time that is a drop in the bucket. Also I am glad for the added safety in case of an off field landing. I can't remember the specific numbers, but shoulder belts reduce major injuries by a major percentage and change fatal accidents into survivable ones in many cases. 

My DPE for my PPL has a son who had an off field landing. Everything was looking good right until the plane caught a small berm in the field he was putting it down in. If he had shoulder belts he would have walked away with minor injuries. Instead he ended up spending significant time in intensive care in a medically induced coma and multiple reconstructive surgeries. After that my DPE said he refuses to fly in anything without shoulder belts. 

I did the install and paid my IA $20 to check it all out and sign my log book. 

It will be awhile before I do any other upgrades to the plane, (next one will be an engine monitor) but the shoulder belts was a must do that I was not willing to wait for. Now I hope I never need them. 

[Guest]

I find it interesting how so many people go crazy installing LED everything lights in their planes in the name of safety and how others complain about the price of a basic safety device like a seat belt.

Ask the guy who was knocked out by carbon monoxide while flying his C model if he was wearing a shoulder belt and what role it played in his survival.

Clarence

[MIm20c]

3 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

I find it interesting how so many people go crazy installing LED everything lights in their planes in the name of safety and how others complain about the price of a basic safety device like a seat belt.

Ask the guy who was knocked out by carbon monoxide while flying his C model if he was wearing a shoulder belt and what role it played in his survival.

Clarence

I will pay whatever it takes to get the job done. What I don't like is a company that increases the price 40% over just a few years. If that happens I try to vote with my wallet and find another vendor which is what I'm trying to do now. 

[XXX]

My first purchase for the Mooney was a set of front shoulder and lap belts. Paid almost $1000 between parts and install.  The 40 year old belts that came out had degraded as well. Replacement should be considered every ten years. 

[Yetti]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MOONEY-M20J-FIXED-STRAP-AIRCRAFT-SEAT-BELT-REPLACEMENT-/220408834769?hash=item335163ead1:m:mbXlLJ19DY8QOYlt8wNykvA&vxp=mtr

[luv737s]

Best thing I did was change the belts to retractable harness.  Did everything myself per FARs but one shoulder harness was tricky.   My AI charged me $50 to finish install and sign off entire installation.  After 3 years I can tell you it was worth every penny.

 

MD

[MyNameIsNobody]

23 minutes ago, luv737s said:

Best thing I did was change the belts to retractable harness.  Did everything myself per FARs but one shoulder harness was tricky.   My AI charged me $50 to finish install and sign off entire installation.  After 3 years I can tell you it was worth every penny.

 

MD

Best thing in your Mooney for upgrades in a C model is retractable harness seat belts...

Wait for it: 

 

HA Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha............................................................Ha.

 

Good one.

[goterminal120]

14 hours ago, par said:

I'm also looking to do this to my C but the price is certainly appalling. Considering it's nothing but a seatbelt strap, how the hell they are justifying nearly a grand for it all is more than amazing. This kind of price gouging makes me want to start my own damn production line.

That's an awesome idea.  I would be interested to know what your profit margin will be after start up costs,overhead, labor, certification costs, insurance for the liability, after selling 100 units a year,..maybe.

   My wife has come to the realization anything for the airplanes start at $500.00. Anything up to $3000.00 doesn't need to be discussed. It kills me how many threads go on about how can I cheap out on my airplane. It is what it is, not cheap. Products are high because of liability costs and certification.

   $1000.00 not to face plant your panel doesn't sound that bad to me. It was the first thing I did when I got my Mooney home. It absolutely is the best improvement you can make. Speed mods get you there a little faster, shoulder harness will get you there alive.

[M016576]

Don't get me wrong: if you don't have a shoulder belt- that's a valid upgrade.  But if you already have the shoulder harness mounting points, the up charge on the alpha kits is way over the top: cheaper, and just as safe options are available.

[MyNameIsNobody]

7 hours ago, Yetti said:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MOONEY-M20J-FIXED-STRAP-AIRCRAFT-SEAT-BELT-REPLACEMENT-/220408834769?hash=item335163ead1:m:mbXlLJ19DY8QOYlt8wNykvA&vxp=mtr

So they are $365 on ebay.  Not a grand.  You folks that think a grand is not a bad price to pay to keep your face from being destroyed on your panel in an accident scenario should be just giddy at $365.  This is an "upgrade" from mine with the push-button vs. mine that can get unfastened by the unwary while swinging J-Bar.

Not sure where the outrage at the outraged comes from.  The price point is HIGH and NOT what needs to be paid for the product.  If you are zero degree interested in price...GOOD for YOU.  I will continue to look for something that is "right" priced not a ripoff.

[PTK]

5 hours ago, luv737s said:

Best thing I did was change the belts to retractable harness.  Did everything myself per FARs but one shoulder harness was tricky.   My AI charged me $50 to finish install and sign off entire installation.  After 3 years I can tell you it was worth every penny.

 

MD

What is the practical benefit to retractable harness? Please elaborate. I have considered it but have been unable to justify it.

[par]

2 hours ago, goterminal120 said:

That's an awesome idea.  I would be interested to know what your profit margin will be after start up costs,overhead, labor, certification costs, insurance for the liability, after selling 100 units a year,..maybe.

   My wife has come to the realization anything for the airplanes start at $500.00. Anything up to $3000.00 doesn't need to be discussed. It kills me how many threads go on about how can I cheap out on my airplane. It is what it is, not cheap. Products are high because of liability costs and certification.

   $1000.00 not to face plant your panel doesn't sound that bad to me. It was the first thing I did when I got my Mooney home. It absolutely is the best improvement you can make. Speed mods get you there a little faster, shoulder harness will get you there alive.

Thanks for taking what I said literally. If given the choice being having my face smashed and not smashed, I would not go with the former.

Please explain to the rest us what justification a company has for increasing their price 40% over a 3 year period for a product as simple as a strap and mounting point. I sell stuff as well but once my R&D cost is recovered, the price comes down....not increase. I'm glad you see nothing wrong with this ripoff because the industry certainly needs customers like you who are even afraid to question this insanity. 

[par]

6 minutes ago, MyNameIsNobody said:

So they are $365 on ebay.  Not a grand.  You folks that think a grand is not a bad price to pay to keep your face from being destroyed on your panel in an accident scenario should be just giddy at $365.  This is an "upgrade" from mine with the push-button vs. mine that can get unfastened by the unwary while swinging J-Bar.

Not sure where the outrage at the outraged comes from.  The price point is HIGH and NOT what needs to be paid for the product.  If you are zero degree interested in price...GOOD for YOU.  I will continue to look for something that is "right" priced not a ripoff.

Read the description carefully. These are intended to J's that already have mounting points. The older mooney do not and cost insanely more.

Edited April 28, 2017 by par

[jamesm]

I have not price the seat belts as a complete set.  So your 40% number increase is probably  correct. I can tell you this about 2 years ago I had interior redone and a several prior to that I had installed the seat belt shoulder  harness kit from Lasar.....  so rear belt were a miss match set for a very long time . So I had just the rear seat belts re-webbed it seems to me it was just under $100  with shipping. I think at that time someone had  told me that just for the  seat belt hardware was going for $30 piece (not if that meant as set or individual piece )  which didn't include the webbing.  I am sure that many people can attest to that installing the clamp for the pilot's side shoulder harness is real pain (at least the first time installing one). Once installed  what you might encounter is  (if you are fat / large  around the waist like me) when I go extend the manual gear .... occasionally  and unintentionally I  unfasten the seat belt usually not the best time for that to happen. I can't speak for Alpha seat belts  not sure what kind of latching system they use.  But people have various solutions for the seat belt unexpectedly unlatching in flight  i.e. twisting seat belt latch portion is facing your waist.  

Hope this helps,

James 67C