United Incident

[gsengle]

I provided you with the DOT statistics. I'm done.


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[Tommy]

5 minutes ago, Antares said:

Also, regarding that top 100 list and "Qantas never overbooking," et cetera. 

You know what those airlines that don't overbook do when they have several flights a day and they don't get enough passengers? They cancel flights until they have enough to fill up a plane. I spent a full 14 hours sitting in an airport in the Philippines and had to get a hotel (on my own dime) at the destination and a rebooked flight to leave the next morning as I missed the connection. I lost a full 24 hours on my vacation over there because the airlines underbooked the first two flights of the day and cascaded them into the last flight of the day, which arrived very late. 

Which airline is that? 

[Yetti]

Just now, Tommy said:

Which airline is that? 

United.   They also have a procedure that will delay, delay and then cancel when originally there was no hope of getting the flight out.  Then you are stuck at the airport with no food and no accommodations and the airport is empty.

[Andy95W]

Not directed at Yetti, but a general question about this topic:

So, other than not overbooking, what should United Airlines have done differently?  Stranded 100+ passengers in Louisville for another 15-18 hours? Not abide by their own published policy? When the man refused to leave the airplane, not called for a law enforcement officer?

[FBCK]

I made the mistake two years ago booking a flight with United. I and three hundred other people were left standing in a line for six, yes six hours.  No information or communication, elderly people standing for hours, it was a terrible.  I hour two the plane was to depart, no one knew what was going on, one of the counter people told us United was leaving BKK and it was like the evacuation of Saigon.  I wrote them a letter and after two months they sent me a $200 coupon, I told them to shove it.  I told them I would rather bad mouth them for the next decade, I'm living up to my end of the bargain.

[FloridaMan]

11 minutes ago, Tommy said:

Which airline is that? 

AirAsia, which was pretty high on the list. 

I've had customer service be less than good at United, but the only real issue I've had with them is a baggage handler who smashed my girlfriend's expensive hand-painted bottle of Sake after we went through customs at ORD on our way back from Tokyo (United is an ANA partner). She carefully transferred it from her carry-on and packed it in her suitcase and we watched as the guy who watched her pack the bottle pick the bag up to his eye level and literally slams it onto the conveyor. We heard the bottle shatter and I had to deal with a lot of crying over that one. 

It was inexcusable and excessive, but I can't fault the entire company over one jackass employee who was probably unionized somehow and impossible to get rid of. 

Edited April 11, 2017 by Antares

[Yetti]

Kept offering money till they made it worth someone time to be inconvenienced. Not directed at anyone that did not direct it towards me

[Tommy]

 

17 minutes ago, Andy95W said:

Not directed at Yetti, but a general question about this topic:

So, other than not overbooking, what should United Airlines have done differently?  Stranded 100+ passengers in Louisville for another 15-18 hours? Not abide by their own published policy? When the man refused to leave the airplane, not called for a law enforcement officer?

Like suggested before increase the incentive until there is a taker. And if still a pass in after the once-in-a-life-time offer of $50 million dollar (the likely fall out from this incidence for UA), then chart a plane for those crew or get them to travel on a competitor's flight or bus / uber / train / cargo / parachute them. Whatever!  The sky is the limit (and friendly, apparently)...

[Yetti]

I don't get it. They had so many options to offer and they chose brute force.   Club passes, first class, money.  $1200.00 would probably have done it for 10 people.

[Tommy]

35 minutes ago, Antares said:

Also, regarding that top 100 list and "Qantas never overbooking," et cetera. 

You know what those airlines that don't overbook do when they have several flights a day and they don't get enough passengers? They cancel flights until they have enough to fill up a plane. I spent a full 14 hours sitting in an airport in the Philippines and had to get a hotel (on my own dime) at the destination and a rebooked flight to leave the next morning as I missed the connection. I lost a full 24 hours on my vacation over there because the airlines underbooked the first two flights of the day and cascaded them into the last flight of the day, which arrived very late. 

Somehow, I have less of an issue when airline cancel flights because there aren't enough of passengers. First of all, they are most likely will incur a substantial financial loss if they fly and if this happens frequently enough, the airline goes belly up. Though one can also argue if they pull such stunts frequently enough, it also goes belly up from customers' revolt. Systematic overbooking, on the other hand, as demonstrated by many other reputable and profitable airlines in the world, is not only unnecessary, it's also morally objectionable and quite possibly illegal in many countries...

 

[Marauder]

What an interesting read. I'm still trying to figure out how Dragonair is #22 on the list. You should be on the bottom of the list with a name like that.


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[Tommy]

9 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

@Tommy please feel free not to ever fly commercial. For the rest of us who depend on air travel for our livelihood, (I'm not an airline employee) the system works very well. I logged 107,000 air miles in the first 3 months of this year. This is how I do business and how I earn a living and fund my Mooney addiction. Airlines over booking flights is a well established and proper procedure. It's also enshrined in law. It also happens in your country as well. I've lived in Australia for some time and have over 1 million miles on Qantas. This is established best practice all over the world.

I see airline customers all the time (I spend a lot of time in airports) being belligerent with airline staff. And several times, I've seen customers forcibly removed from planes. It's always done by law enforcement. And you can be sure, once a law officer tells you to get up out of your seat and to leave the plane with them, you will be leaving the plane. There is no way around it.

The customer here who refused to leave, was absolutely in the wrong. Don't like it, don't fly.

The leggings incident is different, the girls are still in the wrong, but it's unfortunate whoever gave them the passes, didn't inform them, or maybe they were informed and didn't take it seriously. All airlines enforce a dress code for employees traveling for free. My brother is a Captain and his airline doesn't allow employees to even wear jeans when they travel for free. This applies to anyone else traveling for free on your employee benefits. This is not at all unreasonable.

As a consumer of massive amounts of air travel, I'll certainly side with United in both of these cases. The system must be working well, as air travel is accessible to more people for less money than ever before.

 

If the system works pretty well, then please explain those dreadful rankings, Paul...

I mean, come on? Worse than Ethiopian airline??!! I never thought I will say this but, according to the list, I should be flying with Ethiopian instead of United?! Don't you think there might be something systemically wrong about UA to have it ranked lower than Ethiopian?

ps. I feel very much free (at least stress-free) not to fly United Airlines. I never said all commercial airlines are bad. That's a straw man... And as a part time retrieval physician, it's an understatement to say that my livelihood and my patient's livelihood also depend on air travel. 

 

 

[aviatoreb]

I have been on flights that were cancelled for not enough passengers and thereafter they organized a bus for the would-have-been 50 min flight as a four hour drive, which once the drive finally started, was 6 hours....and I wish I had driven in the first place and it would have been ... 4 hours.  But still I was charged for the flight.

It would have worked out better for United if they had booked a limo-service for their 4 employees for that 4 hours drive - nothing worse than I have experienced in the past when the flight was not considered worth it.  And I bet by that limo would have arrive faster than that 2 hour delayed flight.  And certainly better PR than assaulting a doctor, no matter whether or not the law may be on their side, or whether the doctor would have been wiser to get up once the police appeared.

Customer service is not what it once was.  I was delayed ... on United, for both legs of my travel from Milwaukee on Friday this past week.  On the first leg, when it appeared that the first delay would cause me to miss my connection in Chicago, I went to customer service to see about rebooking, and with just one person in front of me in line, I waited for 30 minutes, and then when it was my turn I waited for 10 more minutes and darned I could not get the attention of that customer service agent.  Finally I heard that delayed flight was boarding so I got on it hoping to find better service in Chicago for rebooking.  Then on a flight in Chicago, the plane was broken - ok that happens - but then they kept us on the plane for 1:45 sitting while the plane was fixed, and we kept getting texts every 15 minutes saying that the flight was delayed another 15 minutes, but you could look out the window and see the plane was not almost fixed.  Ok, I know stuff breaks, but it sure would have been nice to get up and get out of the plane - it was hot - without the air running.  Thank goodness it wasn't summer.  I sure dislike traveling on the airlines.  I wonder if I for sure would have gotten up if asked if I had been in the good doctor's position.  One gets travel weary after awhile and just wants to go home.

[aviatoreb]

26 minutes ago, Marauder said:

What an interesting read. I'm still trying to figure out how Dragonair is #22 on the list. You should be on the bottom of the list with a name like that.


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With a name like Smuckers, it's gotta be good.

 

[Cyril Gibb]

9 hours ago, Tommy said:

You were absolutely dead wrong about Australian airline industry. Not only we have strict laws specifically prohibiting overbooking, no single airline in Australia deliberately and systemically overbooks.

This site seems to contradict your statement about strict laws in Australia prohibiting overbooking.  Is the information on this site incorrect or correct?

https://events.com.au/overbooking-airlines-guide-to-air-passenger-rights/

[Tommy]

Just now, Cyril Gibb said:

This site seems to contradict your statement about strict laws in Australia prohibiting overbooking.  Is the information on this site incorrect or correct?

https://events.com.au/overbooking-airlines-guide-to-air-passenger-rights/

It's incorrect and I stand corrected as I stated in the previous reply. 

[Tommy]

35 minutes ago, Marauder said:

What an interesting read. I'm still trying to figure out how Dragonair is #22 on the list. You should be on the bottom of the list with a name like that.


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Dragon Air - okay. Not bad

Drag-on-air - not so good.

Lol

[aviatoreb]

I travel on airlines for business travel / occasionally for family events but never ever do I travel on airlines for vacation because the last thing I want to do with leisure time is satellite parking, huddle through security, shuffle in line for 45 minutes to sit down on a big plane with several hundred other excited passengers, repeat at several connecting airports ... I would rather a staycation than that hassle.  I mean mooney or car range destinations to relax aside.  No place in the world is interesting enough to me to pay my own money to subject myself to get on an airline to go see or "relax".  I mean assault and battery in the aisles besides.

[Hector]

I don't agree with that point. Overbooking is a tool that has been used and perfected down to a science over the past few decades. The carriers know with pinpoint accuracy just how many people will show up for a flight and plan accordingly.

There are two adages used in the airline business. The first one is, once that plane leaves the gate, there's no filling those empty seats. The second is, if you want to become a millionaire, start off in the airline business as a billionaire.
According to my frequent flyer accounts, I have flown over three million miles over the past 30 years. I can't ever recall being involuntarily bumped even once.

Yes the airlines gamble with overbooking all the times because it makes perfect sense. But when you gamble sometimes you lose and have to pay the price. Offering $800 that the customers can only spend in United Airlines tickets works most of the time but not always. When that does not work you need to start offering cold hard cash and I guarantee you there will be takers. The decision to drag this guy out of the airplane while the passengers filmed to whole thing was pure stupidity. What where they thinking! Unfortunately for United, stupidity comes at a very high cost as they will soon find out.


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[PTK]

I see this a little differently. Unfortunate what transpired but it could have all been avoided if that pax had followed instructions. Once we get passed the dramatization with the guy being dragged out in the video we realize that United did not do anything wrong. They simply enforced the rules. He could have gotten up and walked out on his own. He should have abided just as the other three did. We don't know what the conversation exchange was and if this guy was being a smart ass. The airline has bigger fish to fry than be concerned with a difficult pax. They should fine him for all the trouble he caused them frankly. And as far as overbooking it's just the way it is with bargain basement ticket prices. They have to cover themselves for no shows and maximize the number of paying bodies in the seats. 

 

[Hank]

"They have to maximize the number of paying bodies in the seats." That's a good reason to forcibly remove a seated passenger who paid for his seat, so that an employee can have the seat without paying . . .

Never realized I gave up all of my rights and dignity when I buy a seat on an airliner. Take my money, then take the seat because you want it, too. No discussion, no question and no choice. 

I'd have other things to say to you, Peter, but they would be better delivered in person so that you won't misunderstand. And I'll even do it with my hands in my pockets, cause I don't want to pay your dental bills . . .

[Tommy]

20 minutes ago, PTK said:

I see this a little differently. Unfortunate what transpired but it could have all been avoided if that pax had followed instructions. United did not do anything wrong. They simply enforced the rules. The pax should have abided just as the other three did. We don't know what the conversation exchange was and if this guy was being a smart ass. The airline has bigger fish to fry than be concerned with a difficult pax. And as far as overbooking it's just the way it is with bargain basement ticket prices. They have to maximize the nymber of paying bodies in the seats. 

 

I don't even know where to begin...

Are you for real, Peter? Or you are just being satirical (aka. smart ass)?

[PTK]

You're missing tbe point Hank. You do give up certain rights when traveling on an airline. 

It was certainly handled inappropriately and they could've avoided the drama but he was dragged out because he refused to follow instructions. But the airline did what they had to do which is enforce the rules. He either misunderstood not realizing that he has to abide or made a conscious decision to be difficult. The end result was going to be the same. Unfortunately those four pax were not flying on that flight. 

 

[Skates97]

53 minutes ago, PTK said:

I see this a little differently. Unfortunate what transpired but it could have all been avoided if that pax had followed instructions. Once we get passed the dramatization with the guy being dragged out in the video we realize that United did not do anything wrong. They simply enforced the rules. He could have gotten up and walked out on his own. He should have abided just as the other three did. We don't know what the conversation exchange was and if this guy was being a smart ass. The airline has bigger fish to fry than be concerned with a difficult pax. They should fine him for all the trouble he caused them frankly. And as far as overbooking it's just the way it is with bargain basement ticket prices. They have to cover themselves for no shows and maximize the number of paying bodies in the seats. 

 

And now they have a MUCH BIGGER fish to fry with the PR nightmare coming their way. Fine him for the trouble he caused? You know how that would play out. I can see the headlines and twitter feeds blowing up now. "Airline that beat up a man now suing him because they had to beat him up..." Often times the best thing for a company to do is apologize and then move on. Anything they try to do to prove they are right will only keep it in the news cycle and hurt them further.

[cnoe]

What if I tell you he appears to be very much concussed - which explains the bizarre behavior in the second video when he somehow re-board the flight - or worse still, he could well have a traumatic intra-cranial bleed.

I heard from my wife's hairdresser's best-friend's cousin that she read on facebook that somebody told another passenger on a plane that landed at that same airport that she heard in the ladies' room that the guy who was dragged off the plane for refusing a lawful order from police had actually been murdered by rouge cops but then later was resurrected by an African witch doctor from Detroit before returning to the plane to recover his carry-on. I'm pretty sure that's how it all went down.


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