pbarge Posted March 16, 2017 Report Posted March 16, 2017 Okay, so I've started having some gear issues. The first episode was that there was no green gear down indication, mechanical floor indicator and FBO personnel verified the gear was down. It turned out that the landing gear cb had opened (although you couldn't tell visually). This has happened again about 3 times. The latest issue is that about every 8-10 times the gear handle is placed in the down position, absolutely nothing happens and I have to recycle the handle several times in order for it to extend. My mechanic put it on jacks and on about the 10 cycle the gear did not extend. While checking the contacts on the gear relay, the gear extended. He is not sure since it is so intermittent where the problem is. Has anyone had a similar issue?
Guitarmaster Posted March 16, 2017 Report Posted March 16, 2017 Sounds like either a malfunctioning down limit switch or an out of adjustment squat switch.If is is temperature related, most likely squat. However; The fact that you had no green indication would point to a down limit switch. The popped CB would be consistent since the gear wouldn't know where to stop and would overload and pop the circuit breaker. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
carusoam Posted March 16, 2017 Report Posted March 16, 2017 (edited) PB, when you get a chance... The title of your thread needs some help. It doesn't say M20E (on my iPad...) I have seen this twice today. Could be a different problem... message sent to Craig... Best regards, -a- Edited March 16, 2017 by carusoam
mooniac58 Posted March 16, 2017 Report Posted March 16, 2017 I think it is just the user not letting go of the shift key when typing the numbers 1
Yetti Posted March 16, 2017 Report Posted March 16, 2017 Not the sqaut switch.... that would keep it from going up when down. You should not start adjusting things till you do the proper stuff first. Remove actuator and lube it. Check gears per the SB. Lube per the SB Replace the circuit breaker. they wear out.
Guitarmaster Posted March 16, 2017 Report Posted March 16, 2017 Not the sqaut switch.... that would keep it from going up when down. You would think so, but mine kept it from coming down. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk 1
Yetti Posted March 16, 2017 Report Posted March 16, 2017 I could see that if it was way out of wack. I would do the maintenance tasks first then start looking for broken stuff. 2
pbarge Posted March 17, 2017 Author Report Posted March 17, 2017 Ok, fixed the title and thanks for all the advice!
KSMooniac Posted March 17, 2017 Report Posted March 17, 2017 Check the wires going to the switch too...they might have chafed on something behind the panel causing an intermittent short.The gear motor might be worn out too. Happened to me. Send it to George's Electric in CA for rehab at a good price.Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk 1
pbarge Posted March 17, 2017 Author Report Posted March 17, 2017 One other thought, I flew it today and I noticed upon retraction I had no red light indication. I pressed the gear CB and could get the red light to flicker but not stay on. When I extended the gear for landing, no green down indication....mechanical indicator moved normally. Pressed the CB and green light illuminated. Does that cloud things up more? Perhaps the problem is when the gear retracts?
Guitarmaster Posted March 18, 2017 Report Posted March 18, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, pbarge said: One other thought, I flew it today and I noticed upon retraction I had no red light indication. I pressed the gear CB and could get the red light to flicker but not stay on. When I extended the gear for landing, no green down indication....mechanical indicator moved normally. Pressed the CB and green light illuminated. Does that cloud things up more? Perhaps the problem is when the gear retracts? Little confused.... As I understand it, the CB pops whether the gear is up or down, but only when it is up or down. Does it pop in the transition or just when it is at the limits? When the gear is down (no green light), do you get a gear warning when you pull the power back? Does the light in the floor indicator light up? Brian at Wilmar told me they replace a lot of the down limit switches. A weak motor shouldn't affect the lights. Of course, my squat switch wasn't supposed to affect gear extension either, but it did. I chased that problem for two years! Also, what year is your airplane? Edited March 18, 2017 by Guitarmaster
Yetti Posted March 18, 2017 Report Posted March 18, 2017 When was the circuit breaker last replaced? Loose wires can also cause breakers to pop. I found a couple of loose wire on a breaker or two when I pulled to panel.
pbarge Posted March 18, 2017 Author Report Posted March 18, 2017 3 hours ago, Guitarmaster said: Little confused.... As I understand it, the CB pops whether the gear is up or down, but only when it is up or down. Does it pop in the transition or just when it is at the limits? When the gear is down (no green light), do you get a gear warning when you pull the power back? Does the light in the floor indicator light up? Brian at Wilmar told me they replace a lot of the down limit switches. A weak motor shouldn't affect the lights. Of course, my squat switch wasn't supposed to affect gear extension either, but it did. I chased that problem for two years! Also, what year is your airplane? I'm beginning to think that it pops in transition. You cannot tell when it pops as it does not open all the way. There is no physical indication that it has popped only a light click when you press it back in. This time it obviously popped on retraction as the red up light never illuminated. This is a 1966 model.
pbarge Posted March 18, 2017 Author Report Posted March 18, 2017 3 hours ago, Yetti said: When was the circuit breaker last replaced? Loose wires can also cause breakers to pop. I found a couple of loose wire on a breaker or two when I pulled to panel. I purchased the plane this past June....no telling when it was last replaced....hell, it could be original for all I know!
carusoam Posted March 18, 2017 Report Posted March 18, 2017 Are you familiar with the panel mounted gear lights? push to test. Rotate for open/close Iris? Fancy little light covers, they are... Which CB did you push? Did that clear anything up? Best regards, -a-
pbarge Posted March 18, 2017 Author Report Posted March 18, 2017 Yep, familiar...rotated and pressed to test....no light....it is the ldg gear cb 1
Guitarmaster Posted March 18, 2017 Report Posted March 18, 2017 17 hours ago, pbarge said: I'm beginning to think that it pops in transition. You cannot tell when it pops as it does not open all the way. There is no physical indication that it has popped only a light click when you press it back in. This time it obviously popped on retraction as the red up light never illuminated. This is a 1966 model. If it pops in transition, you would have to extend it manually. Have you been doing that?
75_M20F Posted March 18, 2017 Report Posted March 18, 2017 (edited) Your electric gear motor probably needs overhauling. I had a similar issues until I had the motor overhauled. Edited March 18, 2017 by Mooney_Mike
pbarge Posted March 19, 2017 Author Report Posted March 19, 2017 No, haven't had to extend it manually....yet. Yesterday, I flew it back from Tulsa. Gear retracted normally but the red light did not illuminate. Pressing the circuit breaker would only get it to flicker. Landing in North Little Rock, the gear extended normally, but green down light did not illuminate until I pressed the cb. Of course, about every 10th gear cycle moving the gear handle moves nothing until I recycle. I'm hoping its not the gear motor!
carusoam Posted March 19, 2017 Report Posted March 19, 2017 (edited) Summary... 1) Sometimes it works properly. 9 out of ten times... 2) Sometimes the gear switch doesn't do anything... (gear handle?) 3) Sometimes the gear position indicators are not working... (red and green lights) 4) Sometimes the circuit breaker recycle makes things work... (push button type? Really old) 5) Sometimes The circuit breaker itself is open. But does not give a visible cue that it opened... Did I capture the whole list or is there more? There are enough switches, relays and limit switches to test and clean that are independent of the gear motor. Spend some maintenance on these first. They are known to get dirty and fail to work properly. Easy to clean with proper materials... Sounds like something has gotten dirty. An interested mechanic or PP can find and clean most of these items... Best regards, -a- Edited March 19, 2017 by carusoam 1
pbarge Posted March 20, 2017 Author Report Posted March 20, 2017 22 hours ago, carusoam said: Summary... 1) Sometimes it works properly. 9 out of ten times... 2) Sometimes the gear switch doesn't do anything... (gear handle?) 3) Sometimes the gear position indicators are not working... (red and green lights) 4) Sometimes the circuit breaker recycle makes things work... (push button type? Really old) 5) Sometimes The circuit breaker itself is open. But does not give a visible cue that it opened... Did I capture the whole list or is there more? There are enough switches, relays and limit switches to test and clean that are independent of the gear motor. Spend some maintenance on these first. They are known to get dirty and fail to work properly. Easy to clean with proper materials... Sounds like something has gotten dirty. An interested mechanic or PP can find and clean most of these items... Best regards, -a- That pretty much sums it up....will have the mechanic check/clean all of these and check on the SB on the actuator before I have the gear motor rebuilt. Thanks! 1
zaitcev Posted June 4, 2017 Report Posted June 4, 2017 On 3/20/2017 at 10:15 AM, pbarge said: will have the mechanic check/clean all of these and check on the SB on the actuator before I have the gear motor rebuilt. Thanks! It's been a couple of months, any news? (sorry, my electric gear in M20E operates normally, just idle curiosity)
pbarge Posted June 7, 2017 Author Report Posted June 7, 2017 I had the cb replaced and that seemed to fix the issue. Have since traded the plane in for a nice "F" model with a johnson bar....no longer have to worry with it! 1
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