It was hard...but I kept quiet!

[chrisk]

7 hours ago, PTK said:

I was up flying the other day talking to McGuire and they handed me over to ACY. They were busy but managed to find a break and announce with my call: "good morning atlantic city mooney 910BU with you level at 6." 

On a busy frequency my initial contact would have been:  Mooney 910BU at 6000.  And if it is really busy, sometimes its even hard to say that.   On a less busy frequency, I would have added the Good Morning Atlantic City. 

[BDPetersen]

How did an amusing story about airplane envy turn into a workshop on radio etiquette?

[neilpilot]

1 minute ago, BDPetersen said:

How did an amusing story about airplane envy turn into a workshop on radio etiquette?

My fault......"with you" is one of my pet peeves

[peevee]

24 minutes ago, neilpilot said:

My fault......"with you" is one of my pet peeves

Why? If it doesn't bother me, it shouldn't bother you.

[Spenscot]

"With you" isn't quite at the pet peeve level of "Any traffic in the pattern please advise" but it's still unnecessary. How about "level, 6000?" Listening to the controllers at my field berate the student pilots for their sub-par radio skills has made me a little more conscious of being clear and concise with my comms.

[peevee]

Just now, Spenscot said:

"With you" isn't quite at the pet peeve level of "Any traffic in the pattern please advise" but it's still unnecessary. How about "level, 6000?" Listening to the controllers at my field berate the student pilots for their sub-par radio skills has made me a little more conscious of being clear and concise with my comms.

Why level? Why not just six thousand. The absence of climbing or descending to indicates level.

[Spenscot]

Yeah that's true it would work just as well but I thought it was protocol to give "level", "climbing x for x" or "descending x for x" on the initial call up. I could be wrong.

[peevee]

9 minutes ago, Spenscot said:

Yeah that's true it would work just as well but I thought it was protocol to give "level", "climbing x for x" or "descending x for x" on the initial call up. I could be wrong.

the point is to validate your mode C. Any of the above will accomplish that. At the end of the day you're stressing over something the controllers most likely couldn't give two craps about.

Edited November 2, 2016 by peevee

[co2bruce]

Because if you just say 6000 the controller doesn't know if the modifier ( climbing, descending, or level)  was truncated or stepped on.  Beter to be precise. 

[Mooneymite]

I can't wait for CPDL affordable for GA!!!

Edited November 2, 2016 by Mooneymite

[Andy95W]

18 minutes ago, co2bruce said:

Because if you just say 6000 the controller doesn't know if the modifier ( climbing, descending, or level)  was truncated or stepped on.  Beter to be precise. 

Or whether or not you had a pilot discretion clearance, which should also be included in the initial check on.

As for "With you"- He already knows you're with him because you checked on.  Why bother saying it?

(But perhaps you have the wrong frequency, in which case you aren't with him, so again, why bother saying it?)

[Andy95W]

2 hours ago, Spenscot said:

"With you" isn't quite at the pet peeve level of "Any traffic in the pattern please advise" but it's still unnecessary. 

About 20 years ago I was doing pattern work in Killeen, TX when an American Eagle flight was coming in saying, "Any traffic in the area please advise" after every radio transmission.  

After about the 8th time I couldn't stop myself from saying, "What do you need advice on?"  I probably shouldn't have, but it was a quiet day on Unicom and at least he stopped.

[peevee]

25 minutes ago, co2bruce said:

Because if you just say 6000 the controller doesn't know if the modifier ( climbing, descending, or level)  was truncated or stepped on.  Beter to be precise. 

stepped on in the middle of a transmission? Not likely and very obvious if it happens.

[peevee]

1 minute ago, N1395W said:

Or whether or not you had a pilot discretion clearance, which should also be included in the initial check on.

 

PD should to be coordinated controller to controller, they already know you have PD but it never hurts to say PD to xxx.

I have yet to see a good argument for the need to clarify level.

[peevee]

you want to know what's annoying, when someone requests higher but it's out of the stratum below you. You HEAR the controller ship them and say THEY HAVE YOUR REQUEST FOR HIGHER and they check in "so and so looking for higher"

I KNOW YOU ARE. THAT'S WHY YOU'RE HERE. I ALSO KNOW YOU KNOW I KNOW.

that's... annoying.

[Andy95W]

4 minutes ago, peevee said:

PD should to be coordinated controller to controller, they already know you have PD 

I've had ATC query me in the past, "Weren't you given discretion to FL300?" when I forgot to say it.

[peevee]

Just now, N1395W said:

I've had ATC query me in the past, "Weren't you given discretion to FL300?" when I forgot to say it.

see, he already knew.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, N1395W said:

We should start a topic covering "Pet Peeves: Things said on the radio".

Or things typed on a web forum!

Clarence

[Hank]

44 minutes ago, Hyett6420 said:

Ok. As I understand it, you should say this. 

Essex Radar G-OBAL LEVEL FL060 squawking 5134. You say LEVEL so that the controller Knows you are not about to descend or climb, regardless of what your mode C box is spewing out  

We don't repeat our squawk code over here after the initial readback. Do you really do that in every checkin? I went 390 nm each way last weekend, used 12 frequencies going out, haven't counted them coming back. That's a lot of squawk codes!

[flyboy0681]

4 hours ago, chrisk said:

On a busy frequency my initial contact would have been:  Mooney 910BU at 6000.  And if it is really busy, sometimes its even hard to say that.   On a less busy frequency, I would have added the Good Morning Atlantic City. 

I omit the at." Approach Mooney Niner One Zero Bravo Union six thousand"

A controller friend of mine told me several years ago to let go of the "with you" and since that time I haven't uttered those words.

[ArtVandelay]

We don't repeat our squawk code over here after the initial readback. Do you really do that in every checkin? I went 390 nm each way last weekend, used 12 frequencies going out, haven't counted them coming back. That's a lot of squawk codes!

And we don't use flight level below 18000' over here either.

[Hank]

8 minutes ago, flyboy0681 said:

I omit the at." Approach Mooney Niner One Zero Bravo Union six thousand"

A controller friend of mine told me several years ago to let go of the "with you" and since that time I haven't uttered those words.

I squeeze in "level."

"Approach Mooney Niner One Zero Bravo Union, level six thousand". I add "good morning" if there's time.

[PMcClure]

N1050k, 6,000. Unless I am on assigned heading then N1051K, 6000, Runway heading. Or if descending or climbing, then N1051K 6300 for 7000. Good morning and thank you as it seems reasonable based on time of day and activity. 

[cliffy]

A short story-

At one time many years ago while flying for an unnamed airline (all names changed to protect the innocent:-) late at night we checked in on Center and then heard derogatory comments about our airline. This went on for three iterations  when Center came on and said, " OK everyone, listen up, I'm working 2 airplanes, Speed Streak 101 turn right heading 270  for radar identification, Blue Skies 32 (my airline) CLEARED DIRECT JFK!"   :-) :-)

Now to throw gas on the fire-  

You are at 12000 with a PD to 8000 clearance. You stay at 12000 for some time and then decide it's time to go down.

DO YOU CALL CENTER AND SAY "Mooney XYZ    OUT OF 12000 FOR 8000" or do you just start down without saying anything?

 

[ArtVandelay]

N1050k, 6,000. Unless I am on assigned heading then N1051K, 6000, Runway heading. Or if descending or climbing, then N1051K 6300 for 7000. Good morning and thank you as it seems reasonable based on time of day and activity. 

I was taught not to use for and to prevent confusion: 6300 47000,
But everyone does it and it seems the use of flight levels prevents any ambiguity.